Registration Errors in Register 360, I fix them then the go back to the way they were.

Discuss all Leica Cyclone, Cyclone REGISTER 360 & Cyclone FIELD 360 software here.
Post Reply
SCarbo
I have made 40-50 posts
I have made 40-50 posts
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:59 pm
4
Full Name: Samm Carbo
Company Details: Major Power Company
Company Position Title: Geospatial Engineer
Country: US
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Registration Errors in Register 360, I fix them then the go back to the way they were.

Post by SCarbo »

I continuously have this issue. Up until now I've deleted all of my links and started over.

That's a major waste of time, what's the point of spending the time in the field with Field 360 aligning data if the data is going to be misaligned on import. Then you can't fix it.

Here's the run down. I imported scans took about 15 hours to import 345 Medium resolution scans and images. When I started inspecting the bundles I can see data is misaligned. I spend my time, meticulously aligning my data making sure I'm as close to perfect as possible. Get rid of links that don't have enough coverage, etc. I hit Join and Optimize, which you would think would then optimize the bundle based on that correction, as the progress bar moves I can see the error correct itself, but at 100% it reverts back to the way it was and everything I just changed is gone.

I know I can tell it to use the cloud to cloud as opposed to the Globally Optimized settings, wouldn't Globally Optimized be better?
User avatar
geomontgomery
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:23 pm
5
Full Name: George Montgomery
Company Details: ECE Design
Company Position Title: Support Manager
Country: USA
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Registration Errors in Register 360, I fix them then the go back to the way they were.

Post by geomontgomery »

It sounds like you might need some help with your workflow in field360, there should not be an issue importing aligned scans if they were aligned in the field.

Is the cloud failing to optimize, and is that why you say it 100% reverts back to the way it was?

There could be a portion of your bundle that does not have enough cross links, or the bundle could be over constrained.

I would suggest going into your settings and modifying the tolerance for green and yellow cloud links, try to reduce it by a factor of 50%, and see what links now show as red or yellow. This could point towards where the weak links are in your bundle.

It's also helpful to look at the grid view of all your links in your bundle, and sort by Cloud-to-Cloud error to see which links have the most error. You can try modifying or even removing them first, and then optimizing your bundle again.
User avatar
Kruse
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:09 pm
2
Full Name: Eric Kruse
Company Details: Hensel Phelps - Construction
Company Position Title: VDC Manager
Country: United States
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 205 times

Re: Registration Errors in Register 360, I fix them then the go back to the way they were.

Post by Kruse »

SCarbo wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:19 pm I continuously have this issue. Up until now I've deleted all of my links and started over.

That's a major waste of time, what's the point of spending the time in the field with Field 360 aligning data if the data is going to be misaligned on import. Then you can't fix it.

Here's the run down. I imported scans took about 15 hours to import 345 Medium resolution scans and images. When I started inspecting the bundles I can see data is misaligned. I spend my time, meticulously aligning my data making sure I'm as close to perfect as possible. Get rid of links that don't have enough coverage, etc. I hit Join and Optimize, which you would think would then optimize the bundle based on that correction, as the progress bar moves I can see the error correct itself, but at 100% it reverts back to the way it was and everything I just changed is gone.

I know I can tell it to use the cloud to cloud as opposed to the Globally Optimized settings, wouldn't Globally Optimized be better?
I would bet it's due to a couple bad links that the software isn't picking up on and then it's distributing that error throughout per the "globally optimized" setting.

I would leave it in globally optimized settings as that will always produce better results (when the registration is fixed) for when you have closed loops of links. When it comes to large datasets like that, when I'm scanning in the field and using Field 360 to "Pre-registrer", don't close any loops of links. Leave all the chain of links open ended, if that makes sense. After importing into Reg360, I'll run cloud to cloud which will essentially use the C2C constraint across the dataset. I'll spot check with truslicer and once I know there aren't any major registration errors, I'll start to close the loops of links and cross link setups where necessary. since I know the overall registration is virtually correct, I don't do much of anything in visual alignment. I just select the 2 setups, hit visual alignment, and join and optimise. Usually around 5-10 seconds per link so you can knock out quite a few in a short time. This would also be a good time to let Register 360 "add suggested links". Just double check your overlap and error settings are to your liking so it doesn't add 1000 links that aren't necessary.

As always, I'll double check Truslicer to verify all the cross links and closed loop links aren't creating any error. If I do start to see some error, break out the overall bundle into smaller chunks to register before tieing them all back together. I've had similar issues to what you described and it's usually from a couple bad links which the software didn't notice and it's trying to distribute that error (sometimes several feet) across all the links. In cases like that, it'll match the horizontal surfaces fine, but it misses the walls for some reason so the registration results for that link might be fine because all it's referencing is the floor/ceiling when the walls are really several feet off. You can adjust your "search radius" setting which will let Reg360 search for similar surfaces farther away from the point clouds, but don't go beyond 1' as it could introduce bad links. A couple other settings I like to use is to set the Normal Threshold to 1 as it'll import only the cleanest points. I'll max out all the import filters and turn on all the check boxes for import settings (overloaded points ambiguous points, etc.) Lastly, for the max point density, I set it to 1000 to import the full point cloud for Cloud to Cloud registration purposes. I like to think I get better C2C results having more points to use for registration. I think it also helps in scenarious where you don't have perfectly planar surfaces for C2C.

My rule of thumb is in complex datasets/areas scanned, register 100 setups at a time to keep it simpler and easier to fix any registration errors. Once I'm happy and it looks as good as it'll get, lock that smaller bundle and move onto the next section of scans and repeat. Once all chunks of bundles are registered and verified with truslicer, bring all the small bundles together to create the overall bundle. Hopefully this helps. If you have any questions, just let me know. I'm sure there are a few others that'll chime in. I've got a single project of around 1500 scans coming up that should be a fun one! :lol:
Jamesrye
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:13 pm
15
Full Name: James Rye
Company Details: Merrett Survey Partnership
Company Position Title: Spatial Analyst
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Registration Errors in Register 360, I fix them then the go back to the way they were.

Post by Jamesrye »

In my experience, Field 360 is practically useless - unless you are scanning building interiors and just want to check coverage. It gets confused, especially if there are mirrors in the room. It hangs/crashes frequently. Worse still, a bad cloud link in Field 360 can tilt your data. To be fair, the latest version is an improvement.

Mostly, we just scan on site and then import to REG360 with only Auto Target, Import Images and Auto Cloud ticked.

I wonder if your data is being tilted by a bad cloud link?

Once the bundle(s) have been cloud aligned in REG360, we never finalise a project. It is too risky. The software can tilt the data with a bad link. Fitting to control can tilt the data and is poorly implemented (no target heights) and if there is a bad link in your bundle, very strange things can happen.

So we always import the REG360 project to CORE. Here, the scans are held level and you can re-run the cloud alignments. Almost always, Core will give a better fit. You can also then auto-add cloud constraints there because as a previous poster mentioned, too many links and REG360 goes nuts. You can also make cloud alignments and extract targets in CORE, where you simply cannot in REG360.

I wish that Leica would introduce the ability to hold scans and scan bundles level in REG360.
Post Reply

Return to “Leica Cyclone, Cyclone REGISTER 360 & Cyclone FIELD 360”