New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by Jamesrye »

Mackkowalski wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:42 am I am a little confused. We talk about wanting to weight targets a certain way and this feature or that trying to get as close to absolute accuracy as possible but then set our control with a RTK?
Kind of seems like measuring with caliper marking with a sharpie, and cutting with a chainsaw. Maybe I’m missing something
You might use RTK GPS if the client cares more about relative accuracy than absolute accuracy.

Case in point: A client would like to know how vertical a tower is. They don't really care about absolute coordinates - they just want to be able to overlay onto an OS tile or Google Earth. But they really do care that the data is levelled when you are looking at tower verticality.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by Jamesrye »

gsisman wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:58 am
Jamesrye wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:55 pm One more question:
When applying control to a REG360 project, even though the scans are done with high tilt ON. The software does not hold the bundle level (or level to within 12"). So lets say you have control that is only accurate to Smartnet accuracy and then lets suppose that you have 3 control points in an equilateral triangle. Now lets suppose that two points are accurate to 5mm and one is accurate to 2cm. Your entire bundle will be tilted. Does this seem right?
James the high tilt and leveled settings are only for the RTC & P series correct? if it works anything like a local transformation with RTK, then you should always have 4 good points to determine a good starting plane for the scans, just in order to have redundancy to see if one of the points is bad (like you stated). Points in a line or close to linear are not good for any control where the software works this way. There is also scaling errors that can happen, although with the scanner we use (At least the BLK360 it is fitting the C2C scans together even while prioritizing targets, if you have that checked) which we always do on our outside scans.
There is a question I have on that though- is the "prioritizing targets" using BW targets within the scans that are labeled to match other targets in the adjoining scan that are labeled with same labels? that is the understanding I have and the type of 60-70% of our work requires this.
We try and always have overlapping targets of 3 disparate angles to help that tilted plane issue. We've always run into problem when we don't- unless we're scanning inside walls. Outside without a truly compensated scanner like the P-series newer RTC or others there is usually have so much noise and many times messy planes to work with. Supposedly the new v2022.0 uses other "non-plane" surfaces to help fit the C2C also? if I read the release notes right.
You better have a really good compensated scanner to do long linear work and still hit things vertical at the end, especially if you are using non-coordinated targets through-out on a linear scan job.

Yes, the high tilt is for the RTC (12") and the P series (1.5"). We have used the BLK - but only where its small size would be a massive help (such as inside a very small tank/vessel). We generally cloud register the BLK data to scans from a levelled scanner where possible - for instance, we used the BLK to scan above ceiling tiles because it was easier to elevate that scanner than one of the heavier ones.

I guess if I was trying to use a BLK for an entire project, I would use a digital level to create 4 levelled targets for my first and last scan.

It is possible to do a long linear project, like a highway survey with an RTC. Just not using Register 360.

In Reg360, even the Cloud to Cloud optimization is not aware of to the up direction of the scanner, nor is it bound by the tilt sensor. Personally, I think this is a major failing of the software because the RTC scanner is collecting levelled data and then your cloud alignment ignores that. Then, when you fit to control, the bundle is also tilted onto the control - so your control needs to be spot on and in a very strong geometric shape - like the number 5 on a dice. You cannot have a hanging leg - even a very short one, it is amazing how fast errors can build up.

CORE resolves this issue as all the scans are now recognised as levelled when high tilt accuracy is turned on. Have 3 common targets per scan and a control point that has been shot in with a total station and double levelled every 100m or so and you can achieve what I would consider to be 'survey grade results'.

With regards to scale factor, surveyors remove the scale factor from the coordinated points- so everything is registered on a plane grid system. Once the CAD work is done, the scale factor can be re-introduced to the drawing should the client want it on OS Grid for example.

So, you may ask why to use REG360 at all? In the case where you have just used cloud alignment, the nice interface of REG360 is a major plus point. But then the project must be imported to CORE and the cloud alignments re-run and then the data can be coordinated in CORE. This way avoids unwanted tilting.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

badam wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:30 am Reg360 2022 bugs/features
  • Rendering still slower then 2020.1 release it can be noticed especially with bigger clouds like 500-1000 or more setup, but can be notified earlier as well most probably in truslicer which is a must for every project for QA/QC.
  • point cloud color change slow (loads one by one)
  • Top/Bottom/Back/Front/Side View button, shortcut is not invoking a Zoom All command
  • Zoom all command should only zoom to setup boundaries if setup cloud is visible, if bundle then zoom to bundle.
  • really annoying hdr notification is still there (reported this in 2020 december and a few more times)... (if you know what is that you most probably hate it.)unnamed.png
  • forced unnecessary project integrity check during every export (it can even take 1-2 hours on bigger projects (1500-2000 setup) for nothing, the User can invoke the function anytime he/she has a problem) unnamed (1).png
  • during visual alignment the fence tool shortcuts not working (F), unfortinatelly it was bad in 2020.1 as well..
  • view shortcuts are not convienient to use with the shift button. shift+L,shift+T,shift+R,shift+B,shift+D, they should not touch the most used shortcut (T for topview) until there is no customizable shortcut handler.
  • it seems like the rendering get really performance hungry. It is even max out a R9 5900X with 24 thread while doing like nothing just staring at your screen. And it even sometimes freeze the reg360 controls for a few seconds (when you go to visual alignment). Overall it feels laggish.
  • cannot select grey (link) setup icon to be linked with other setup. Only the link function is working.
  • setup tree scrolling issue (steps to reproduce)
    • select few or one setup(s)
    • move your mouse a little bit (so you will get a no available action sign)
    • start to scroll and it will drop you either up or down it depends on where you scrolled
    • solution: disable this up/down jumping feature and implement a normal function to scroll the tree while you drag something.
  • ugly point cloud/image overlays it is like this since 2021.0.0 it was good in 2020.1 image007.png
  • collapse bundle will not open to bundle level if everything is collapsed already
This is the exact list of bugs i've sent earlier this morning to Paul and our sales reps. Most of the issues started with 2021.0.0 at least all of them which are related to performance. Which is funny because leica stated that the 2021 edition is the first which supports etups up to 2000. And certainly it is not capable handling that efficiently. however the old one can. And still don't consider the new 2022.0.0 edition to be capable of handling large sized projects where i mean 500-1000 and more. However it certainly improved since 2021. If you don't care the issues above then upgrade. I think if there is no other critical issues in the 2022 edition then it is better already compared to any of the 2021 versions.

Show us what you guys found. I've not tested the released version thoroughly, i just went through our daily tasks. i didn't tried to export/import files or target registration or even registration at all.
Just to add onto BADAM's list.
Cleaning point cloud does not remove everything with Polygonal capture. Seems like rectangular works though

Using Polygon
https://www.screencast.com/t/YpCog0Yqk

Using Rectangular
https://www.screencast.com/t/PZdMJSYZisxf

Polygonal works then AFTER using Rectangular??
https://www.screencast.com/t/SLdUB7pNRdGi

Sometimes point-cloud disappears in Setup View in certain ortho view modes
https://www.screencast.com/t/0SYxtBBdq6
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by badam »

gsisman wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:04 pm
Sometimes point-cloud disappears in Setup View in certain ortho view modes
https://www.screencast.com/t/0SYxtBBdq6
This is the exact issue what i'm talking about earlier. Just a little bit more developer friendlier. : :mrgreen:

"Top/Bottom/Back/Front/Side View button, shortcut is not invoking a Zoom All command"

To workaround it you need to manually invoke zoom all by button or press Z shortcut unless they added something horrible extra keys to the old shortcut.

This is bad since 2021.0 i already reported it several times. At least it is working in 2020.1 :D

This issue comes from the rendering camera position if the camera position is zoomd in to much it is flipping the view (feels like negative field of view applied to the rendering camera) around the center of the bounding box. Once the view is flipped then it has issues with renders if you zoom out pointcloud will be hidden, if you zoom out more then the setup positions will be hidden as well. Sometimes in the flipped view all of controls (zooming/moving clouds) are not responding at all.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by Billy9m888 »

If anyone has installed Reg 360 2022.0.0 could they please check out the online User Guide via the ? HELP icon and see whether it seems to be for this new version of the software.
The build I have downloaded is r22715 and i'm not sure if the User Guide is up to date. The User Guide my install links to does not seem to have much to say about unstructured point clouds and under section 12 LEGAL has an indicated date of March 2020.
If its not upto date then a link to the correct User Guide would help if possible ?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

Billy9m888 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:30 pm If anyone has installed Reg 360 2022.0.0 could they please check out the online User Guide via the ? HELP icon and see whether it seems to be for this new version of the software.
The build I have downloaded is r22715 and i'm not sure if the User Guide is up to date. The User Guide my install links to does not seem to have much to say about unstructured point clouds and under section 12 LEGAL has an indicated date of March 2020.
If its not upto date then a link to the correct User Guide would help if possible ?
Thanks in advance.
Kevin

I have a v2022.0 on my laptop that I am using with smaller jobs right now. We have v2021.1.2 in the office (Floating licenses)
The release version that I got directly from our HDS support is the same s22715
It isn't really online help, but an HTML document stored in the file:///C:/Program%20Files/Leica%20Geosystems/Cyclone%20REGISTER%20360/help_manual/reg360help.html#

You are right about the Copyright and Legal info, because Leica doesn't always update all nomenclatures in the iterative updates. I have found this especially on MYWORLD from time to time. We have better luck directly from HDS support in US

Since my previous post about Unstructured Point clouds I have discovered several things, most recently this week from BLK2GO demo and RAW data from that demo.
There is a section that specifically states no "UNSTRUCTURED CLOUD SUPPORT' THIS IS PARTIALLY TRUE
I found this out more definitively with the resent BLK2GO Demo. It doesn't support Unstructured Non-Leica data, but it DOES Support Leica's Quasi-Structured unified cloud exports.
As I mentioned earlier we had several Unified Point Clouds that were exported from Cyclone Core by a consultant and given to us. They each had ONE SETUP in them they cam in as ONE SETUP in REG360, even though when looking at the unified cloud you could see each individual setup position throughout the culvert (Blank Cyclinder circles on the ground below the setups). It was very hard to orbit and place these in relation to each other because there wasn't an overlapping scan between the two (Even though they terminated in the very same Large Outfall structure.

I also saw this with the BLK2GO data AND the Pegasus 2 data we've had, although with the latter two , they allow an assignment of "WAYPOINTS" on the import process that creates a Quasi-setup Photosphere at a customized linear distance along the "SLAM WALK" or Mobile corridor scan. The entire "WALK" though comes in as ONE Setup, though the keyhole truncated Photospheres are unique to each waypoint. You can then join this Unified SLAM Cloud to other static scanner setups or each other as long as they have corresponding SCAN AREA overlap in the area of the photo spheres.

https://www.screencast.com/t/C8Qhz8sWnRAu
https://www.screencast.com/t/SMDgqdjliDb

(The photospheres can also be manually set in the field for capturing control or other items that are of closeup interest). I am experimenting with this now to see how exactly it all publishes out to LGS, Jetstream Which will mimic the Output to Cyclone Enterprise (Which is our end product distribution/viewing point.) Also how it exports to E57 files.

I'm not a coder or have ability to look at an e%& Leica File but, My final conclusion is that Leica is implanting some header code in their E57 file that allows their software to import a Leica created Unified cloud as ONE setup and also can create Photospheres in their software that appear as setups but really are not. Whatever they are doing, I would like NavVis to pick up on because by far the NavVis images are WORLDS better than the BLK2GO.

I will say what was shocking is actually seeing the size of this thing. I was thinking BLK360 with a handle......NOT. More like Half the size. Hexagon/Leica is by far worlds ahead of the rest of the world in Miniaturization and technology combinations......Thus the new "AP Autopole". https://youtu.be/ONoSQTl404Q
You just have to pay so much for their stuff. Kind of like you all that buy Teslas

I recall this quote from 20+ years ago when the first silicon Germanium? chips came out and Leica prepped us technical sales & Support people with a technical session that said "We can fit so much stuff on this chip we could make RTK as small as your phone, but who's going to pay 20K for something that physically insignificant...."
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by Billy9m888 »

I ask because I process my Leica BLK3D image groups in Epic Games RealityCapture software which gives me un-structured point clouds (and textured meshes).
I want to integrate these point clouds with TLS data and also BLK2GO and BLK ARC scan data.
I think I can do it in Cloud Compare but I was hoping the new release of Reg 360 would allow this to be done more efficiently.

Page 28 of the 22 February 2022 Release Notes says the following which seems encouraging but is not referred to in the User Guide referred to above;

Unstructured data fully supported
Cyclone REGISTER 360 now fully supports unstructured data from a variety of sources. Unstructured data is data without a regular row column grid. All mobile data and LGS data is unstructured whereas all data collected by static scanners (i.e. RTC360, BLK360, P-Series,) is structured with the data in row column format.
Cyclone REGISTER 360 already supports unstructured data in the form of LGS and BLK2GO. The additional support adds the following formats for unstructured data:
 BLK2FLY
 BLK ARC
 E57- (unstructured data)
 PTS (Import)
 RCP (unstructured data)
 TXT (Import)
 LAS (Import and Export)
 Pegasus (MMS) mobile data
 LGS- Newly supported are LGS files without normals
Please note that when importing unstructured data, Auto Cloud and Auto Target are not supported.
New workflow to support unstructured data
Cyclone REGISTER 360 now supports the import of all common unstructured data formats allowing users greater flexibility for combining data from different sources.
Unlike BLK2GO, BLK2FLY, BLK ARC, LGS and Pegasus data, unstructured data from RCP (unstructured), PTS, LAS, TXT and even E57, has no Setups or collection positions in the data. These formats are simply a collection of x,y,z locations with (optional) intensity and RGB.
Cyclone REGISTER 360 requires at least one Setup position to be created during import to interact with the data in the SiteMap and Cloud viewers.To mitigate the missing Setup location, Cyclone REGISTER 360 will create one Setup in the centre of the weighted unstructured cloud (this means the Setup will be created in the centre considering the density of the points). Then Cyclone REGISTER 360 will create a Cloud-to-Cloud cloud for registration. The registration cloud will be 50m in radius around the Setup.
Once imported, the Setup can be selected with another Setup to register using Visual Alignment. More Setup locations can be added after import (See Create WayPoints below)
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by badam »

Billy9m888 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:04 pm I ask because I process my Leica BLK3D image groups in Epic Games RealityCapture software which gives me un-structured point clouds (and textured meshes).
I want to integrate these point clouds with TLS data and also BLK2GO and BLK ARC scan data.
I think I can do it in Cloud Compare but I was hoping the new release of Reg 360 would allow this to be done more efficiently.

Page 28 of the 22 February 2022 Release Notes says the following which seems encouraging but is not referred to in the User Guide referred to above;

Unstructured data fully supported
Cyclone REGISTER 360 now fully supports unstructured data from a variety of sources. Unstructured data is data without a regular row column grid. All mobile data and LGS data is unstructured whereas all data collected by static scanners (i.e. RTC360, BLK360, P-Series,) is structured with the data in row column format.
Cyclone REGISTER 360 already supports unstructured data in the form of LGS and BLK2GO. The additional support adds the following formats for unstructured data:
 BLK2FLY
 BLK ARC
 E57- (unstructured data)
 PTS (Import)
 RCP (unstructured data)
 TXT (Import)
 LAS (Import and Export)
 Pegasus (MMS) mobile data
 LGS- Newly supported are LGS files without normals
Please note that when importing unstructured data, Auto Cloud and Auto Target are not supported.
New workflow to support unstructured data
Cyclone REGISTER 360 now supports the import of all common unstructured data formats allowing users greater flexibility for combining data from different sources.
Unlike BLK2GO, BLK2FLY, BLK ARC, LGS and Pegasus data, unstructured data from RCP (unstructured), PTS, LAS, TXT and even E57, has no Setups or collection positions in the data. These formats are simply a collection of x,y,z locations with (optional) intensity and RGB.
Cyclone REGISTER 360 requires at least one Setup position to be created during import to interact with the data in the SiteMap and Cloud viewers.To mitigate the missing Setup location, Cyclone REGISTER 360 will create one Setup in the centre of the weighted unstructured cloud (this means the Setup will be created in the centre considering the density of the points). Then Cyclone REGISTER 360 will create a Cloud-to-Cloud cloud for registration. The registration cloud will be 50m in radius around the Setup.
Once imported, the Setup can be selected with another Setup to register using Visual Alignment. More Setup locations can be added after import (See Create WayPoints below)



well i didn't tried that, but i don't see a reason to use that approach unless you really want to use lgs, truview live, or something downstream in the leica environment. I think it is way much faster to register a drone point cloud or similar to a TLS data inside cloud compare. You don't have to import/export which usually takes forever in leica applications etc...

However based on the releaese notes it should be capable of import unstructured data from several soruces as you mentioned.
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