New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

Jamesrye wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:55 pm One more question:
When applying control to a REG360 project, even though the scans are done with high tilt ON. The software does not hold the bundle level (or level to within 12"). So lets say you have control that is only accurate to Smartnet accuracy and then lets suppose that you have 3 control points in an equilateral triangle. Now lets suppose that two points are accurate to 5mm and one is accurate to 2cm. Your entire bundle will be tilted. Does this seem right?
James the high tilt and leveled settings are only for the RTC & P series correct? if it works anything like a local transformation with RTK, then you should always have 4 good points to determine a good starting plane for the scans, just in order to have redundancy to see if one of the points is bad (like you stated). Points in a line or close to linear are not good for any control where the software works this way. There is also scaling errors that can happen, although with the scanner we use (At least the BLK360 it is fitting the C2C scans together even while prioritizing targets, if you have that checked) which we always do on our outside scans.
There is a question I have on that though- is the "prioritizing targets" using BW targets within the scans that are labeled to match other targets in the adjoining scan that are labeled with same labels? that is the understanding I have and the type of 60-70% of our work requires this.
We try and always have overlapping targets of 3 disparate angles to help that tilted plane issue. We've always run into problem when we don't- unless we're scanning inside walls. Outside without a truly compensated scanner like the P-series newer RTC or others there is usually have so much noise and many times messy planes to work with. Supposedly the new v2022.0 uses other "non-plane" surfaces to help fit the C2C also? if I read the release notes right.
You better have a really good compensated scanner to do long linear work and still hit things vertical at the end, especially if you are using non-coordinated targets through-out on a linear scan job.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

Pet peeve of Leica's processes in their SW.
New v 2022.0
Looks like it imports E57. I do successfully import two E57 from a P series export from Cyclone (with one setup per large linear scan each??)
[https://www.screencast.com/t/YGTQzoM3lfyw][/url]

Try another import from a E57 exported from a Cyclone project that merged LAS data and mobile scan data. This data was not structured in Cyclone whereas the culverts I believe were but were exported as unstructured data?

Looks like it is importing the second e57 https://www.screencast.com/t/kesMyBxs
Somewhere along the process it bailed with no reason given https://www.screencast.com/t/TzWEbeclRfS

Anyone know anything about this issue?..., or is this Leica's way of hamstringing you again to use their sensor to import their style e57 file into Reg 360 or having to use their "FLAGSHIP" product to get an e57 that can be used downstream by their product. Pretty Ridiculous.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by badam »

gsisman wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:02 pm Pet peeve of Leica's processes in their SW.
New v 2022.0
Looks like it imports E57. I do successfully import two E57 from a P series export from Cyclone (with one setup per large linear scan each??)
[https://www.screencast.com/t/YGTQzoM3lfyw][/url]

Try another import from a E57 exported from a Cyclone project that merged LAS data and mobile scan data. This data was not structured in Cyclone whereas the culverts I believe were but were exported as unstructured data?

Looks like it is importing the second e57 https://www.screencast.com/t/kesMyBxs
Somewhere along the process it bailed with no reason given https://www.screencast.com/t/TzWEbeclRfS

Anyone know anything about this issue?..., or is this Leica's way of hamstringing you again to use their sensor to import their style e57 file into Reg 360 or having to use their "FLAGSHIP" product to get an e57 that can be used downstream by their product. Pretty Ridiculous.
Well i don't see why would you use register360 for unstructured data, what you want to do in reg360 what you cannot do in other software like cloud comapare. Sure you cannot do truview, which is a bummer for you, as you use cyclone enterprise. I cannot see a reason to use register 360 other then registering TLS (structured) data. But maybe it is just me...

If i can do something outside of leica environment, then i won't even try to do it in reg360. For example i've never tried to subsample/decimate a cloud during export. Never used truview (i just hate it, potree is way better with some modification).

I haven't see significant features i would miss in 2021 and newer releases. Maybe just what i specifically requested. For example report generation delay option, finalized registration pointcloud creation option. These are the only reason i'd upgrade, and of course the newer rtc360 importer (mxreader).
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by Mackkowalski »

I am a little confused. We talk about wanting to weight targets a certain way and this feature or that trying to get as close to absolute accuracy as possible but then set our control with a RTK?
Kind of seems like measuring with caliper marking with a sharpie, and cutting with a chainsaw. Maybe I’m missing something
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by topogeo »

Mackkowalski wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:42 am I am a little confused. We talk about wanting to weight targets a certain way and this feature or that trying to get as close to absolute accuracy as possible but then set our control with a RTK?
Kind of seems like measuring with caliper marking with a sharpie, and cutting with a chainsaw. Maybe I’m missing something
it is time for Leica to allow surveyors to choose control application strategies according to their needs.
If I work with RTK and therefore use the targets mainly for georeferencing, I have to be able to do it without the inaccuracy of the points changing the connections between scans excessively (and therefore incorrectly)
If I work with a total station, the targets will be used mainly to constrain the scans, so they must be prioritized.
Why doesn't Leica, which is a TOPOGRAPHIC house, do it ???

Piercarlo
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by jamesworrell »

topogeo wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:26 am it is time for Leica to allow surveyors to choose control application strategies according to their needs.
If I work with RTK and therefore use the targets mainly for georeferencing, I have to be able to do it without the inaccuracy of the points changing the connections between scans excessively (and therefore incorrectly)
If I work with a total station, the targets will be used mainly to constrain the scans, so they must be prioritized.
Why doesn't Leica, which is a TOPOGRAPHIC house, do it ???
Can do this in Core easily enough.

RTK: Scan bundle is locked with itself. A second registration is created with the RTK control scan world and the fixed bundle scan world, best fit.

TS: could use TS control with the first bundle to least-squares the bundle, then the second registration with RTK done to geo-locate.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by badam »

jamesworrell wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:14 am
topogeo wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:26 am
Can do this in Core easily enough.

RTK: Scan bundle is locked with itself. A second registration is created with the RTK control scan world and the fixed bundle scan world, best fit.

TS: could use TS control with the first bundle to least-squares the bundle, then the second registration with RTK done to geo-locate.
We don't want to use Core. But you shouldn't use best fit, because I suppose that will allow to rotate the cloud bundle around x,y axis. That is the main issue here. During Georeferencing the only allowed rotation should be around Z axis to keep the leveled scans level. Especially when you reference to an RTK GPS.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by jamesworrell »

badam wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:26 am We don't want to use Core. But you shouldn't use best fit, because I suppose that will allow to rotate the cloud bundle around x,y axis. That is the main issue here. During Georeferencing the only allowed rotation should be around Z axis to keep the leveled scans level. Especially when you reference to an RTK GPS.
The scanworld in Core is (or at least can be) set to levelled .. so rotation/elevations of RTK won't change the pitch and roll .. again that is in Core.

If your scans are level, the overall bundle will be set to level - the second registration as proposed above will not change the pitch/roll.

To be honest, no idea about R360 .. we don't use it for finalising the rego.

As far as Register 360 goes, perhaps would depend on scanner. Latest version locks pitch and roll or RTC data where higher accuracy IMU data is available for example.
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

badam wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:44 pm
gsisman wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:02 pm Pet peeve of Leica's processes in their SW.
New v 2022.0.........
Well i don't see why would you use register360 for unstructured data, what you want to do in reg360 what you cannot do in other software like cloud comapare. Sure you cannot do truview, which is a bummer for you, as you use cyclone enterprise. I cannot see a reason to use register 360 other then registering TLS (structured) data. But maybe it is just me...

If i can do something outside of leica environment, then i won't even try to do it in reg360. For example i've never tried to subsample/decimate a cloud during export. Never used truview (i just hate it, potree is way better with some modification).

I haven't see significant features i would miss in 2021 and newer releases. Maybe just what i specifically requested. For example report generation delay option, finalized registration pointcloud creation option. These are the only reason i'd upgrade, and of course the newer rtc360 importer (mxreader).
Adam,
We would do that because we have many different kinds of sensors we collect info from (RAW DATA) it could be Structured (BLK360 or C10 or P series or Faro) but it is also Mobile data which is basically unstructured- it's just that Leica's Pegasus and BLK2GO (and probably the new BLK2FLY & BLK-ARC) create pseudo structured in that they create, or have the ability to create structured Photo Spheres (Setups) at specific intervals along the collection route. Some of the Mobile data we have is from a NAV VIS VLX or Reigle Scanner that delivers in an unstructured E57 or LAS format and we want to combine it at times with detail structured scans at Intersection or specific corridor sections. I'm sure it has something to do with just a Setup header that Leica inserts in their E57 file because the Export I referred to in the previous post came in fine with ONE setup showing but the whole cloud unified with all the scans (you can see the individual setup areas because of the empty scan circles at the multiple setups through the culverts.)

Register 360 does not have an option for Compressing the DB like Core either which REMOVES the deleted and cleaned points from the DB records. Register 360 never DELETES anything from the DB. Thus you have some DB's where you have a lot of overlap or noise from pedestrians and traffic that has been CLEANED, but is still in the DB, just flagged to be hidden once it's cleaned.(Leica's Mantra is never delete field collected data,period)
I want to get away from importing and exporting and re-importing to another format, that just bogs down the workflow.

It is a workflow issue and your workflow probably works well for you going to different products and importing exporting back and forth
Our ultimate end is the control and management of Multiple Point cloud accounts for various departments, Divisions and County Consultants.
Not super familiar with Potree except for experiementing with MANY online services that are popping up using that system to display pointclouds. To be honest I think PreVu3D has the best future in presentation of scan data with getting away totally from the pointcloud and going to a detailed colorized mesh. If they can ever get that to a plug-in for CAD that would be GOLD!
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Re: New Version of Cyclone 2022.0.0 & Reg 360 2022.0.0 released

Post by gsisman »

topogeo wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:26 am
Mackkowalski wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:42 am I am a little confused. We talk about wanting to weight targets a certain way and this feature or that trying to get as close to absolute accuracy as possible but then set our control with a RTK?
Kind of seems like measuring with caliper marking with a sharpie, and cutting with a chainsaw. Maybe I’m missing something
it is time for Leica to allow surveyors to choose control application strategies according to their needs.
If I work with RTK and therefore use the targets mainly for georeferencing, I have to be able to do it without the inaccuracy of the points changing the connections between scans excessively (and therefore incorrectly)
If I work with a total station, the targets will be used mainly to constrain the scans, so they must be prioritized.
Why doesn't Leica, which is a TOPOGRAPHIC house, do it ???

Piercarlo
Piercarlo,

I may be wrong but I believe if you have targets marked in your scans (by import selection, manual selection or by tagging them in the new version of Field 360-Android-IPAD) that when you perform registration internally scan to scan, you can choose to prioritize targets in the settings-or not, using just cloud to cloud instead, with no input from the marked targets (This would be similar to picking three targets in each adjoining scan in the Visual registration with the clouds synchronized.
CR Kenedy has good Youtube Video on this https://youtu.be/V3jGYOJXyT4

Not sure what "Prioritizing targets mean" while doing C2C although in the Visual registration between scans you can also choose "just use targets only" and optimize by targets as the referenced video shows, which is what we ALWAYS did when we originally made many outside topography scans (with very little or no buildings) with the P-series. The step of registration is not related at all to later using the CTRL file import with those same identified targets to GEOREFERENCE the entire LOCKED Point cloud bundle to the control (whether collected with RTK or Instrument. This last step will create a Best fit among all your control unless you've set the max error at a certain level for targets and the residuals are higher than that, then Reg 360 just ignores them and uses the targets that fall within your parameters.
I do agree that they need to allow you to weight the control by X&Y and separately by Z, which I don't think they do now-but i would believe that is part of their "Roadmap" since they added X,Y,Z residual after they had only complete 3D residual in the first couple releases.
Last edited by gsisman on Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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