New PC for Register360

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Kruse
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by Kruse »

So I've been down this rabbit hole several times since our company is slowly switching over to the Leica scanners and software platform and this is the ultimate build I've been able to come up with with minimizing the overall time constraints with Register 360... For outdoor scans (scan density only changes import times per setup by a second or two) where you have an open sky - import times are averaging right at 1 minute 31 seconds a setup with 5K images imported. For indoor scans, this is very dependent on the environment, i.e. are you in a fully built out office building with paint, carpet, ceilings etc. or on a construction site with metal studs exposed, metal decking, concrete reinforcing, etc.. You can see a wide range of import durations. For 5K image import in a finished room/area, It's averaging around 2 minutes 45 seconds a setup. When on a construction site with metal studs, concrete reinforcing, metal decking etc. I'm seeing my import times take closer to 3 minutes and 15 seconds a setup. Something with more detail in the full 360 image that takes longer to process compared to an outdoor scan open to the sky above.

For each of those times/examples, when you lower the image import settings from 5K to 4K, the import time is literally cut in half for my machine. So a 1.5 minute import per setup is now 45 seconds. From 4K to 2K, I'm seeing about 20-22 seconds a setup for import, and if I ever choose to import at 1K resolution for some reason, I'm seeing import times of around 10-15 seconds a setup (been a while since I've imported at those low resolutions though. Those times relate to outdoor scans, but a nearly identical time differential/image resolution occurs for indoor scans as well.

So my current machines specs are as follows:

CPU - Threadripper 3970X - 32 core 64 threads - base clock of 3.7GHz and boost of 4.5GHz
128GB of DDR4 3200 RAM
Nvidia 3090 GPU
Primary/C Drive - Firecuda 520 Gen4 2TB M.2 SSD
Secondary/D Drive - Firecuda 520 Gen4 2TB M.2 SSD
12 TB Western Digital SATA 3 HDD for archiving

Knowing what I know now and how Register 360 likes to use its resources, I would now spec a system as such:

CPU - Same 3970X, it offers a great balance of single core speed and has the horse power for multithreaded applications. The 3990X (64 Core 128 Thread) Would potentially be faster as a whole for Register 360, but the slower single threaded performance might be enough to slow it down after the import phase since link creation, optimization, exporting seems to be a mostly single threaded part of the application. During Import, my CPU is mostly pegged at 100% during import, so more CPU cores, typically the better for import times and minimizing them through Register 360 or Cyclone Basic.
GPU - whatever works for your budget here honestly, Register 360 doesn't really seem to care or use a GPU much through any of the phases of a registration workflow. I would get a GPU that will work best for your Autodesk applications, so an A Series (professional series) GPU from NVidia would be ideal, but once again, really up to your budget for this item.
RAM - no question, get as much RAM as your budget can handle. I routinely use all 128GB of my RAM during import with 5K images and seems to be the biggest bottle neck for me right now during my workflows with Register 360. I'll be upgrading my system to 256GB before the end of the year.
Primary System Storage - Samsung 980 Pro 2TB Gen4 M.2 SSD - Currently the fastest M.2 SSD on the market I believe
Secondary system storage - Samsung 980 Pro 2TB Gen4 M.2 SSD - a secondary drive that's just as fast as your primary is critical to Register 360 and optimizing speed. Due to how Register 360 saves/used temp files and where you direct it to save them at, can be one of the biggest bottle necks to a workflow, so a secondary FAST drive is critical.
Archiving storage - If not on a server, buy the biggest mechanical HDD your budget will allow. I archive all my project files and save them for a couple months before deleting the working/.RAF files Other than that, I export/archive all the RAW scans and exported datasets for the life of our projects.

So with my job, I use Register 360, Cyclone 3DR, the vast majority of Autodesk applications, and Adobe Lightroom, Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects. With my current computer, I believe it has the best overall performance for my daily software needs. Sure, there are always going to be certain applications and workflows where I'm taking a hit, but overall, this is the best bang for your buck. Before buying my current system, I reviewed all my applications and workflows with a Puget Systems Rep and spec'ed out my current desktop to be the best overall fit using Puget's knowledge of the various software. From that, I have what I believe is an incredibly well rounded and extremely powerful systems while taking as little of a hit to my workflow needs. When trying to spec out a similar system through HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc., you're easily looking at a 25K machine. But a custom build through Puget, was just under 8K. Right now, we're purchasing another 5 or so desktops using this information above.

Having this machine now for over a year and processing over 12,000 setups, while also using Revit, Civil 3D, Navisworks, the Adobe software suite, Leica Cyclone Basic, Register 360, 3DR, Cloudworx, etc... I feel I have a pretty good background and experience and can confidently say that the systems I described above will offer about the best overall performance for Register 360 in addition to whatever software you can throw at it. I'll try my best to get back to anyone with questions.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by JohnWayne »

Hello!

We are currently looking to get a heavy computer to handle all Reg360 related, since what we have now is 32GB RAM which I understand is way to little. Im not a computer geek so to speak, threads like this helps a lot! So thanks to all of you! I have a put together a computer with a buddy who is tech savvy in regard to what Kruse said, but not familiar with point clouds, so what is your thoughts on this? Quite expensive, so maybe overkill..?

Also, can anyone tell me about server storage and so on? I saw someone mention this, where they can access and look at projects from other computers. Would be very useful since this would be a pc dedicated to Reg360 shared between multiple people.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by badam »

Well i think you should contact leica about using concurently the software with different users at the same time.

I wouldn't be surprised if they recommend you to not do concurent works, i can think of an issue if multiple session is open the the server db will be locked and could easily crash an import or a version creation.

If you really want to use it through remote session then if i recall correctly it not works wiith consumer nvidia cards so you have to buy an amd card or one of the quadro. I can test it for you really curious about that.


Cpu seems a bit overkill. We runs ryzen 5600g without dedicated gpu (default cooler). It works fine. 64 gb of ram is the absolute minimum if you have rtc.But 64 usually enough just run the your rtc imports in safe mode. P1 thing we noticed it gets slower to change sitemap and go to bundle cloud if you reach bigger cloud (5-700 setup or more) compared to the machine where we have dedicated gpu (rx570).

We working from/to NAS and of course it is not recommended by leica in any means. Last year i created a topic on these later i'll link that in. Gigabit connection is fine if you can saturate that you are good to go. It usually not reach this during working. The only noticeable difference is in optimizing cloud, but surely you do it once or twice a day if you are working with large cloud. If it is small 50-100 setup you will not see anything.

As for storage you will need a lot but it really depends on what are your goals. We have projects which are 1.5tb so if you wants to work on local and have two big projects ongoing you might be out of space. Especially during export when there is a need for extra storage space at least as many as your project is.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by SailingBen »

Hi All,

A quick question for the point cloud hive mind.

I am buying a new laptop for Point cloud processing using leica cyclone suite of softwares. I am looking at the Lenovo P1 Gen 5.

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/laptops/ ... en101t0033


I want to know what is better to have 2 separate SSDs with a NVIDIA® RTX™ A2000 8GB GDDR6 GFX or 1SSD with NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX™ 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6

The more powerful GFX make use of the 2nd storage bay?

I know Leica suggest having the software running on a separate drive to the project folder. I guess having an external drive for this is a bad idea?

Any thoughts on the above would be much appreciated
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by badam »

If you really only want point cloud processing (cyclone register/cyclone register 360), and no cad tools, vfx,etc. Then you don't need this kind of gpu-s at all.

you need more cpu and more ram especially, with reg360 i'd not buy anything less then 64 gb. If you ever planning to import hdr images from blk360 or rtc360. which is very common if you use any of them.

Separate ssd won't make huge difference. i think, external storage drives can be slower. But if it connected through fast transfer cables like usb 3.X then i think it won't make much difference...

We store our exported clouds and even our working versions of the projects on the exact same nas, no problem at all... So everything is hold safely and efficiently.. a little bit performance hit, during import, but this is not an issue for us. if it imports in during out of workhours we fine with that. and it can import about 300 setup during the night.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by masterpine »

If going big on the GPU in the Lenovo P1 is purely based around point-cloud works, definitely reconsider. There is very little that Cyclone/Reg360 uses the GPU for, current intel and AMD onboard APU's do the job just fine. Our office quite likes the Lenovo products, we've had good success with the AMD 6850U based P16S ranges. For around half the price of that P1 you'll get much better PointCloud performance. If being a bit "blingey" isn't a problem, I personally use a Legion 5 Pro running a 5800H/64GB RAM/4+2TB NVME and an RTX3070 for remote work. The gaming stuff will be cheaper than the professional gear.

You'll need a minimum of 32GB RAM. As said below you actually want 64GB+ if you're handling proper jobs. Populating both NVME slots is a good work case as Cyclone/REG360 likes having the IMP files/active projects on a different drive to raw data for import or the drive it is exporting works to.

If you are comfortable opening up the back of a laptop yourself (and Lenovo still designs machines with very easy serviceability), my tip is to buy the cheapest RAM setup from Lenovo and then purchase the correct SODIMM's yourself. Make sure to check that your laptop can support 2 SODIMM slots as it's becoming more and more common that machines have a single slot plus some soldered RAM. Hell, at the same time pop a cheap NVME drive in there instead of speccing a pricey one from Lenovo, it'll just be used as a storage mule.

That all said, you'll want to transition to bigger desktop machines if you're properly looking at PointCloud works. A laptop screaming away all day processing data isn't fun to sit next to and you really want to be able to throw 128GB+ of RAM at Cyclone/REG360. You'll want to be working on a big 4K screen or two anyway, may as well go with a desktop. A 5700G/128GB RAM/2+2TB NVME desktop will be about the same cost as a high specced P16S/P1 and absolutely destroy them in performance.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by smacl »

Have had an i9 based Lenovo Thinkstation myself for a couple of years now and it has been a very solid workhorse at a good price. I'd be cautious about low priced gaming rigs as they often cut corners on items like the power supply and cooling to get the most competitive price. If you're going to be leaving a PC unattended overnight working at full tilt processing point clouds, these are not components you want to skimp on.

I'd also echo the sentiment of not spending money on a GPU you don't need, better for a lot of work to have more RAM, and bigger, better SSDs. Just get something with a big enough case that you can add that GPU to later if and when you need it.
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Re: New PC for Register360

Post by masterpine »

Great points on the risks of deploying gaming/consumer-spec hardware, it's really only an option if you are capable and confident in building the systems yourself and picking and paying for quality components. They will require much more attention and planning, plus any IT related issues will need to be sorted in-house as you do not have the option of high end support.

End of the day it is a cost/benefit analysis that has been be made on an individual basis.

Since my last post, there has actually been a little shift in the Register360 landscape. For Reg360 Plus 2023 there are now some automatic PointCloud classification features that take full advantage of the system GPU. Not sure yet just how useful the feature is but it does indicate a trend towards future releases leaning in to GPGPU capabilities. Bit of a wait and see for now though.
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