Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
- 3DForensics
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
It's not my area of work, but super low res scans would have you flying through there in no time with enough density to give them what they want with a disto. Then again, if all you need is a disto, head over to your local hardware store and for $!00, you have yourself a business!
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
True,
I don't want to turn this into a cost type thread and get away from the original question.
But like some said earlier - TLS is pricey because of the amount of data and the quality of the data (provided you know what you are doing right?)
I think this is some of those clients - just like many - that need a litle bit of education. For this project I would honeslty charge "disto" rates but would scan it bc its going to be faster that way and more efficient for us - from a business pespective that sort if make sense.
It almost makes me want to think that we should get a navis or BLK2Go just to spend less time on these sites i nthe future and be able to charge less for scanning time. The part that makes it model challenging is that those devices are 70K USD which is still expensive.
But overall I glad to know that I was thinking in the right terms with regards to what TLS brings to the table compared to just a disto workflow.
I don't want to turn this into a cost type thread and get away from the original question.
But like some said earlier - TLS is pricey because of the amount of data and the quality of the data (provided you know what you are doing right?)
I think this is some of those clients - just like many - that need a litle bit of education. For this project I would honeslty charge "disto" rates but would scan it bc its going to be faster that way and more efficient for us - from a business pespective that sort if make sense.
It almost makes me want to think that we should get a navis or BLK2Go just to spend less time on these sites i nthe future and be able to charge less for scanning time. The part that makes it model challenging is that those devices are 70K USD which is still expensive.
But overall I glad to know that I was thinking in the right terms with regards to what TLS brings to the table compared to just a disto workflow.
- 3DForensics
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
All good points and please don't think I am judging you...I think we all face this type of challenge in our work every now and then and some more than others!
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
no problem, none at all.
I don't have problems with clients who does BIM's for their design and hires us to do complete shells and turn on an as-built model. They have never complained about accuracy so we must be doing something right, but its the client like this one, who are working in 2D cad who don't care about a 3d view or the amount of insight TLS bring, that is it hard #1 to justify the cost of scanning and #2 like this one, explain to them that our AVERAGED out linework or walls along a point cloud, even with LOA-4 or even worse at times when you make wall perpendicular is just as accurate and in all cases a far better representation of the conditions on-site than any other process.
Here is the image I tried to post earlier.
I don't have problems with clients who does BIM's for their design and hires us to do complete shells and turn on an as-built model. They have never complained about accuracy so we must be doing something right, but its the client like this one, who are working in 2D cad who don't care about a 3d view or the amount of insight TLS bring, that is it hard #1 to justify the cost of scanning and #2 like this one, explain to them that our AVERAGED out linework or walls along a point cloud, even with LOA-4 or even worse at times when you make wall perpendicular is just as accurate and in all cases a far better representation of the conditions on-site than any other process.
Here is the image I tried to post earlier.
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- landmeterbeuckx
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
Good discussion and i will reply with some thoughts but at first i want to say : ditch this client and move on. I've wasted far to much time explaining why i do it like the way i do and why it costs this much $$$.crullier wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:33 pm I have a client with wants an "as-built" of the interior of a building for area calculations. When I called in to speak with him he told me that he would rather send someone in with a "disto" laser line because that was a more accurate way to measure a space than with a TLS.
Let him use a bloody disto and try to connect floors and rooms together. A disto is good for 1 room only or if you meastured with a TS to complete single room plans.
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
- landmeterbeuckx
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
I've been doing this for 22 years.I know and would hope people. would believe my judgment.cesaratleica wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:22 am This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
How the perceived value of scanning if viewed in the eyes on the final client, as compared to traditional methods.
The selling skills of service providers, which is a skill that requires learning and practice
The balance of educating the client vs the return on the time investment for this education. As Lieven mentioned, sometimes might as well just move on, but this is not something obvious, and clearly depends on the business.
I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
if you are going go have surgery, are you going to ask him the tools he will be using? I'm not.
dou you know this famous saying by the best cop in the world, Sledgehammer : "trust me, i know what i'm doing!"
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
Don't know that one, only the "trust me, I'm an engineer" one, which I guess it's similar in nature...landmeterbeuckx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:45 amI've been doing this for 22 years.I know and would hope people. would believe my judgment.cesaratleica wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:22 am This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
How the perceived value of scanning if viewed in the eyes on the final client, as compared to traditional methods.
The selling skills of service providers, which is a skill that requires learning and practice
The balance of educating the client vs the return on the time investment for this education. As Lieven mentioned, sometimes might as well just move on, but this is not something obvious, and clearly depends on the business.
I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
if you are going go have surgery, are you going to ask him the tools he will be using? I'm not.
dou you know this famous saying by the best cop in the world, Sledgehammer : "trust me, i know what i'm doing!"
I don't doubt our clients, generally speaking, trust the experts judgment. It's how we, or our clients, convey the message to theirs... most of them just want to have data on their fingers. Swipe right if you like it, swipe left if you don't. They don't really care about the background profile. Moving away from that... takes a very powerful message and skills in communication. My two cents, as it were.
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Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client
both of your bring up a point that was brought up at dinner last night by a good friend of mine - "move on".