Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by Martin_au »

JFArchTech wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:48 pm
Martin_au wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:13 am We do it all the time, combining conventional survey data, blk360 data and blk2go data. Usually export in e57 and recap. Main limitation is no panoramics in recap.
Thanks for the input, I figured the easiest workflow would be living in the Leica environment and exporting to format of choice. Is there a noticeable difference between the BLK360 and BLK2GO data when combining? Was there a specific reason you combined the data? Accuracy, speed, etc.?
Certainly is. We chop and change between the two depending on what's being surveyed and what the priorities are.
e.g., if doing tanks/reservoirs, I might use the BLK2Go to go around the tanks quickly. There's few features and not much interesting there. Then I'll use the BLK360 for scanning inside the large valve pits.

Another trick is that the BLK2Go has very strong filtering around edges, so you get less smearing of points. Combined with the fact that it's mobile means I tend to use it for surveying features like big grated pits where a tripod scanner will have trouble getting past the grate. With the BLK2Go I can just walk around on the grate, getting points through all the holes.
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by VXGrid »

Kruse wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:55 pm
JFArchTech wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:59 pm That makes sense thank you, I am mostly curious about having multiple hardware vendors and a single third party application. I was told post processing needs to be done in the producer software (Reg360) for the BLK2GO. Which sounds like Registering BLK2GO data with a different hardware vendor isn't a viable solution, it would need to be Registered in Reg360 then exported / imported into a third party app to combine with separate vendor data.
Most vendors for scanner hardware and registration software are proprietary to their own ecosystem due to the raw scan file formats. There are some exceptions like the older FARO scanners can have the raw scans imported into Leica, Trimble, and ReCap software (and I'm sure many more), but I believe their newest Premium scanners are locked down to only be imported in SCENE. Once you get past the initial import of the RAW scan data and can then export files like an e57, then virtually all software will have the ability to ingest that data to be tied in with other datasets.

Believe me, I wish all scan data was cross compatible with all registration software as it would make life so much easier, but every brand wants you in their own ecosystem from when you're scanning, registering, creating deliverables, to other downstream workflows so they can squeeze as much money from you.
So we are a third party software developing firm, and we can read the raw FARO Premium files.
Riegl and Z+F should be possible as well, as far as I know are their SDKs publicly available.

And for SLAM data, it might be nice for other companies to be able to read it, but we don't do any SLAM or SLAM improvements, so it makes more sense to get a finished aligned LAS/LAZ/E57. And most of the SLAM stuff is directly exported from their respective SLAM software as such, NavVis, FARO, Emesent, Stonex, Kaarta, all the new chinese ones, ...
Don't know about the BLK2Go, or if you need an extra module in the Register360 software?
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by JFArchTech »

VXGrid wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:09 am
Kruse wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:55 pm
JFArchTech wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:59 pm That makes sense thank you, I am mostly curious about having multiple hardware vendors and a single third party application. I was told post processing needs to be done in the producer software (Reg360) for the BLK2GO. Which sounds like Registering BLK2GO data with a different hardware vendor isn't a viable solution, it would need to be Registered in Reg360 then exported / imported into a third party app to combine with separate vendor data.
Most vendors for scanner hardware and registration software are proprietary to their own ecosystem due to the raw scan file formats. There are some exceptions like the older FARO scanners can have the raw scans imported into Leica, Trimble, and ReCap software (and I'm sure many more), but I believe their newest Premium scanners are locked down to only be imported in SCENE. Once you get past the initial import of the RAW scan data and can then export files like an e57, then virtually all software will have the ability to ingest that data to be tied in with other datasets.

Believe me, I wish all scan data was cross compatible with all registration software as it would make life so much easier, but every brand wants you in their own ecosystem from when you're scanning, registering, creating deliverables, to other downstream workflows so they can squeeze as much money from you.
So we are a third party software developing firm, and we can read the raw FARO Premium files.
Riegl and Z+F should be possible as well, as far as I know are their SDKs publicly available.

And for SLAM data, it might be nice for other companies to be able to read it, but we don't do any SLAM or SLAM improvements, so it makes more sense to get a finished aligned LAS/LAZ/E57. And most of the SLAM stuff is directly exported from their respective SLAM software as such, NavVis, FARO, Emesent, Stonex, Kaarta, all the new chinese ones, ...
Don't know about the BLK2Go, or if you need an extra module in the Register360 software?
Thanks for the confirmation on vendor's RAW data,Sounds like your software would be the solution for multiple vendors in a Terrestrial scanner environment. With the BLK2GO you are able to export PTS,LAS,E57 after alignment in Reg360+. So it could be possible to use Reg360+ with BLK2GO data, export to universal format, import into 3rd party software where terrestrial data is registered natively and combine the two.

That seems like the most useful workflow I have seen so far with these limitations.
PointCab is the software you're talking about? I am not familiar with using it but have seen it spoken about around the forum.
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by VXGrid »

JFArchTech wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:12 pm [...]

Thanks for the confirmation on vendor's RAW data,Sounds like your software would be the solution for multiple vendors in a Terrestrial scanner environment. With the BLK2GO you are able to export PTS,LAS,E57 after alignment in Reg360+. So it could be possible to use Reg360+ with BLK2GO data, export to universal format, import into 3rd party software where terrestrial data is registered natively and combine the two.

That seems like the most useful workflow I have seen so far with these limitations.
PointCab is the software you're talking about? I am not familiar with using it but have seen it spoken about around the forum.
Good to know that the export out of Reg360+ is straightforward as well, so data transfer for every SLAM device on the market is pretty straight forward. Awesome.

Yes I am working for PointCab GmbH, software I am talking about is PointCab Origins :)
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by Daniel Wujanz »

Gentlemen,

do not forget to talk about the issue of homogenisation as we have already done in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=16379&p=86518&hili ... ion#p86518

Registration algorithms compute rigid body transformations between scans. That means that the shape of the given dataset remains untouched.

The task of homogenisation is slightly different: redundant information, e.g. overlapping areas and / or control points, is used to minimise discripanicies among point clouds by changing the inner geometry. The latter means that the shape of the point clouds changes as a consequence of this process. All SLAM manufacturers have to cope with this problem within single walks / flights / rides. As for multiple datasets there is no off the shelf solution on the market (to the best of my knowledge), yet.

I've added a small example to highlight the difference. On the left and center we can see two registrations with different starting values between a static and a kinematic scan (I've increased the scale of one source that you can see something). It is apparent that, no matter which set of transformation parameters you choose, gaps between the two different sources remain whereas a homogenisation minimises these (on the right).
LSF-registration-vs-homogenisation.png
Cheers

Daniel
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by jamesworrell »

Pretty sure I have posted before .. news to come I suppose:

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch ... f/11544860
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Re: Combining BLK2GO data with Terrestrial scans

Post by Daniel Wujanz »

jamesworrell wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:07 am Pretty sure I have posted before .. news to come I suppose:

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch ... f/11544860
Dear James,

thanks a lot for bringing it up! The refreshing world of patents. I am glad that we published our first take on the subject in 2014 and another one last year...

Cheers

Daniel

P.S.
As a side note: This reminds of one of the greatest patents ever filed: The "circular transportation facilitation device" aka "wheel".https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 0012A4.pdf
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