SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

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LPaulCook
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SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by LPaulCook »

I am having a problem doing something I do not normally do but I need to do now. That is, I have a scan project from a few years ago and have re-scanned part of the site yesterday. I need the old scans cluster to stay exactly where it is as it is georeferenced correctly. Then I need to manually register the new scans cluster with the old scans cluster. There are plenty of stationary objects still there to do this. I did not include survey control points in the new scans as they are no longer available.

I have tried marking the old scans cluster as the "reference cluster", but it still moves. I don't think that it should move but it does.
I have tried marking the old scans cluster as "fixed cluster", but it still moves.

Is this a BUG in the 2022.1.0 SCENE program or what is the correct method to accomplish this task?

Thanks for your help.
L. Paul Cook, PLS
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Leandre Robitaille
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by Leandre Robitaille »

Ah yes yes yes,
I have gotten very used to this very exact operation. First off you need to note down (screen capture works) coordinates of the original scene project. This will allow you to validate things didn't move.
Now there is 2 ways to go at this. Both way should allow you to simply drag and drop the new scans into your scene project.
1) Its all c2c registered. Then what you need to do is create a new cluster(from the top level), drag and drop the registered old scans cluster into it. Validate nothing moved, drop new scans in it, move them near where they need to be (aka correspondance view drag them) if its a lot of scans register them before, move the as a cluster then drop them in the upper cluster so you can do your c2c registration. Once about at the right position, make that old cluster as reference cluster. Then launch a c2c registration with inclinometer off. If you have inclinometer turned on things will move. Once registration done validate nothing moved and tada you did it.

2) its target based and you need inclinometer data. Then you need to c2c 2 scans, new with old. You need to have the old scan as reference, c2c the new and old scans together with inclinometer off, validate nothing moved with the transformation tab. Then export the coordinates of spheres of the new scans now registed with the old scans and drop those coordinates in a csv file. Import that csv in a new Scene, import new scans, register them using that csv file as reference, target base with inclinometer on.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by WWilford »

More of a workaround than anything. Make a copy of the project( I learned this the hard way). Create a few mean points in Scene with good distribution. Copy the coordinates of these points. Create a CSV file from these points. Enter the CSV file and use it as a control the same way you would surveyed points. It should hold that cluster to the same location.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by WWilford »

Sorry. I did not read the post thoroughly. It does not make any sense that if the original cluster is registered to control that it moves locations at all. This is troubling for any work flow and should be explained by Faro.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by Leandre Robitaille »

WWilford wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:10 pm Sorry. I did not read the post thoroughly. It does not make any sense that if the original cluster is registered to control that it moves locations at all. This is troubling for any work flow and should be explained by Faro.
Its not all a scene issue, most of it is just missunderstanding how scene handles clusters and registration operations.
If you do a registration and have inclinometer checked on it will do an average and move scans,hence the TB work around I mentionned, same for why you turn off inclinometer when doing a c2c approach.

Next issue is moving cluster into another cluster, they can apply coordinates transformation if not done correctly,usually safe way to do this is to create a new cluster on the higgest level and use that cluster, not to thinker to much lower in the tree and create a cluster there

Importing a lsproj into another is another common mistake, scene applies the transformation on the top level of the importer projext, so if you have different coordinates on top things will move. That is why you always import the reference project and not the other way around (or edit the transformation so they are both the same).

Now one way scene could make this easier is having the "fixed" cluster actually work. Currently using fixed cluster makes that cluster ignored when doing registration. What it should actually do is have that cluster locked in space but allow other scans to register to it.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by ProCro »

I also don't understand this politics of Faro. Reference cloud/cluster shouldn't move!

One of reasons why I moved my registration from Scene to RealWorks (and Taglabs plugin to transfer registration back to Scene)...
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by Leandre Robitaille »

Welp I don't know how I didn't know this but fixed cluster actually works just went and tested it, BUT it only works for target based registration. It is still blowing my mind because I was going threw so much trouble with the csv creation.

I was half right about the fixed cluster, if you do a c2c the fixed cluster is ignored and wont work. So you can integrate a few of the new scans with the ''fixed cluster'' and do a c2c with inclinometer off and do a target based afterwards with the new scans.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by LPaulCook »

Setting the old scan cluster to be the "reference cluster" used to hold that cluster exactly where it was when registering a new scans cluster to it.

This method no longer works!

I have turned off all sensors in the settings with the same results.

I have tied setting the old scans cluster to "fixed cluster" too, with the same wrong results.

I have an open case with FARO about this BUG. I'll post any results I receive from them here.

Keep your suggestions coming if you have anything new to add.

Much appreciated!!
L. Paul Cook, PLS
www.LPC3D.com
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by yankoch »

ProCro wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:38 pm I also don't understand this politics of Faro. Reference cloud/cluster shouldn't move!

One of reasons why I moved my registration from Scene to RealWorks (and Taglabs plugin to transfer registration back to Scene)...
Well, Scene is probably the only software in which a reference moves.
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Re: SCENE Q: How can hold one cluster and move another into registration

Post by Justin Richards »

I used to import the old project into the new project, get it positioned then export the new project cluster as a new project (if I need it to be separate, if not, I was finished at this point). Now on the old project I open up a scan using quick view and pick four points, plug those locations into a CSV file and place scans so if it does get moved I can re-register my CSV file, and if nothing else it makes for a good verification that all is well

Never hurts to have multiple version of SCENE installed at all times, but just don't get carried away.
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