Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

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smacl
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by smacl »

stutosney wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 am I have always used Cloudworx for AutoCAD, similar to what you say, tracing over the lines. Then there is Revit as well. I just don't fully trust automated extraction programs, especially on highly ornate or old buildings that cathedrals etc as you have to do a lot of QA. They are handy for nice square rooms though.
Automated extraction will never do a 100% of the work for you but actually handles the ornate stuff pretty well. The issue isn't so much of trust, as the output is overlaid on your point cloud for QA and completion, but whether the type of job, quality of scan data and output required are such that it adds value. The pictures below (excuse the quality, captured from a youtube video) are taken from a cathedral scan taken with a P40. The slice taken through the pillar below illustrates where auto-extraction provides real value as the complex combination of compound curves would be painful and time consuming to draw manually. This isn't about whether automated is better than manual tracing, it is all about having the right tools in your toolbox for the job your facing. Ideally, you'll have both options. Manual tracing is better in a noisy environment and with lower quality data where human judgement is needed for many of the picks. Automated tracing shines where you have clean data, vacant possession of the site, complex surfaces and a good scanner.

Points from slice only
1.jpg
Automatically extracted polygon with embedded arcs
2.jpg
Overlay of scan and extracted data. Note the P40 allowed for fitting of arcs and lines to 2mm
3.jpg
My feeling is that automated extraction will continue to improve over time as raw data becomes cleaner and algorithms improve. The full video from a couple of years ago is here.


youtu.be/qoOPdkcYZuA
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by stutosney »

smacl wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:51 am
stutosney wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 am I have always used Cloudworx for AutoCAD, similar to what you say, tracing over the lines. Then there is Revit as well. I just don't fully trust automated extraction programs, especially on highly ornate or old buildings that cathedrals etc as you have to do a lot of QA. They are handy for nice square rooms though.
Automated extraction will never do a 100% of the work for you but actually handles the ornate stuff pretty well. The issue isn't so much of trust, as the output is overlaid on your point cloud for QA and completion, but whether the type of job, quality of scan data and output required are such that it adds value. The pictures below (excuse the quality, captured from a youtube video) are taken from a cathedral scan taken with a P40. The slice taken through the pillar below illustrates where auto-extraction provides real value as the complex combination of compound curves would be painful and time consuming to draw manually. This isn't about whether automated is better than manual tracing, it is all about having the right tools in your toolbox for the job your facing. Ideally, you'll have both options. Manual tracing is better in a noisy environment and with lower quality data where human judgement is needed for many of the picks. Automated tracing shines where you have clean data, vacant possession of the site, complex surfaces and a good scanner.
Hi Shane, the data looks good and I agree that automated extraction definitely has a use, I think my comment was more about the extreme side of it, trying to extract everything. But you're right, it can be used as another tool in the armory to make work more efficient.
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by mariusP »

Automatic feature extraction looks very nice at the beginning, but as in your video, you extract lots of noise as-well (As marked in the attached picture below). And only slice/windows lines extraction from the point cloud is far away from final drawing deliverables. Of course, video is 2017y, maybe now everything works much better, can‘t confirm, because never tried your software.

I can share my experience when I started to work with 3D laser scanning and point cloud 8 years ago. I was very focused on automatic feature extraction and I have drawn everything according to point cloud points, with deformations (profiles, walls lines, doors, windows...). And when I finally delivered „drawings“ to architects, constructors. There was a huge conflict 😉 The asked: what is this drawing? Your hands were shaking when prepared drawing? I drawn all profiles at it is, rather than copying or preparing stylized drawings... It was just a couple of things mentioned that were bad, not to mention layers, stylistics, line thicknesses, and all the other stuff. Never in my life would I want to repeat it, it was a great shame at first...

3D laser scanning/photogrammetry has a great benefit, but also there is a gray side, that you see too much information you can't even see with the naked eye. And when we started providing point clouds for new clients to create models / drawings by themselves, they said they never thought that objects can be so crooked.
Of course, other markets may have different standards. But what I see today is the same everywhere.

Extracted floor plan.jpg
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Undet Point Cloud Software provides software solutions for AutoCAD, ARES Commander, Revit, and SketchUp point cloud users to save time, increase efficiency, and reduce errors in creating 3D models and 2D drawings.

:arrow: www.undet.com
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by smacl »

As per my previous post, automated extraction is not 100% accurate and you will always be left with some editing, but in many situations it is still a huge time saver. If you've got flat vertical walls and regular angles in a modern building, manual tracing is quite straightforward. If you've got an older building where the walls aren't straight, there are lots of compound curves and the corners are odd angles, it can be very time consuming to draw. Much more so than deleting noise for example. It is about using the right tool for the job and having the right selection of tools available. For some jobs for example, you can simply extract a hi-resolution ortho-image of your slice as a DWG and give it to a CAD operator to draw up.

I do think that long term however, levels of automation will inevitably rise as scan data gets denser and cleaner and new algorithms emerge. My opinion is that over time the role of the expert human operator will increasingly be in QA and QC rather than bulk data extraction. Certainly on road and rail for example, heavily automated workflows are considerably more productive. It is taking longer for building internals but it will get there.
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by smacl »

For those interested in automation, Florent Poux is also doing some really interesting work on this, see https://www.linkedin.com/posts/florent- ... 81696-htDI
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Re: Scanning field to AutoCAD workflow

Post by melshy »

You can use faro asbuilt combined with Undet in revit and export to AutoCAD. Under render image fast and faro asbuilt will extraction wall very fast :)
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