Scan to BIM... it hurts

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Phill
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by Phill »

I was saying to one of the guys at work today- there has been this massive trend towards "reality meshes"... yeah here is that point cloud that was too big for you to deal with, turned into triangles, that are equally too big for you to deal with but look slightly more realistic. Head slap.. computers aren't ready for that level of detail on any scale other than a few sample scans. A triangle has as no more intelligence than a dot. Learn how to or figure out how to model objects from cloud. Come and play in the fourth dimension - x,y,z and information. A plane, box or cylinder contains a lot less bytes that 500,000 points, and you can hang any information you like on it. Ben Cyra knew it when he made Cyclone with all its modelling tools which have not changed for 15 years. Clouds are great but if you cant use them to give your client something that can be transferred in an email attachment you really aren't playing the game properly.

I'm sure plenty of you will chime in with "well I'd been delivering point clouds/reality models/meshes for years and our clients love them blah blah blah". I've also been doing that, but we get most of our repeat business from our clients who get what they've always got, but a little better, a little safer, sometimes a little quicker. Sometimes they get something far more comprehensive than they were expecting.

Just the old man at the back of the room having a rant after a few beers.

Cheers

Phill
Last edited by Phill on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by jamesworrell »

Phill wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm Just the old man at the back of the room having a rant after a few beers.
Have another one .. I might have to top of up the wine. I am in no rush - Rego360 has a nights-worth of import work ahead of it ;-p

But yeah. Proper parametric models - and not just CAD - with point cloud available as well, still wins for my $$.

And don't get me started on "digital twin". A mesh from a drone is not a digital twin - it is a dumb ass mesh. Even a classified mesh is not a digital twin. Get some metadata, IOT telemetry, machine learning for building analysis, probably asset management and incident reporting .. then I might let you call it a twin - only if it is survey-grade.

Won't be long to wait - machine learning will be doing the bulk of the extract within a couple of years, five tops.
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by PG@SENG »

Phill wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm I was saying to one of the guys at work today- there has been this massive trend towards "reality meshes"... yeah here is that point cloud that was too big for you to deal with, turned into triangles, that are equally too big for you to deal with but look slightly more realistic. Head slap.. computers aren't ready for that level of detail on any scale other than a few sample scans. A triangle has as no more intelligence than a dot. Learn how to or figure out how to model objects from cloud. Come a play in the fourth dimension - x,y,z and information. A plane, box or cylinder contains a lot less bytes that 500,000 points, and you can hang any information you like on it. Ben Cyra knew it when he made Cyclone with all its modelling tools which have not changed for 15 years. Clouds are great but if you cant use them to give your client something that can be transferred in an email attachment you really aren't playing the game properly.

I'm sure plenty of you will chime in with "well I'd been delivering point clouds/reality models/meshes for years and our clients love them blah blah blah". I've also been doing that, but we get most of our repeat business from our clients who get what they've always got, but a little better, a little safer, sometimes a little quicker. Sometimes they get something far more comprehensive than they were expecting.

Just the old man at the back of the room having a rant after a few beers.

Cheers

Phill
As someone standing outside the fire looking to jump in, the insight of this post is appreciated.

Cheers Mate!
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by GCFdesign »

Carbix wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:39 am Ok So its not to often I reach out for help... I should ask more often.

Most of our projects have been quite square. But one of our current projects has me scratching my head on QC. Vancouver has almost 0 talent base when it comes to point cloud to model techs. The school are not teaching it... I'v called and am sending the local collages point clouds just so they at least have something to try on.

SO! I want to look into ditching our current method for converting point clouds to Revit files. The options are vast, expensive and misleading. If you guys could save me months of pain from trail and error I would greatly appreciate it.

Case Study

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/exce ... lowna.html

Nothing is flat, Nothing lines up.

I would love to find software that can mesh a wall into Revit.

Current echo system is RTC360s, Reg360 and Revit. Our clients work in Autodesk and Vectorworks.
Here is a work in progress scan2Revit model l am creating currently.
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by Matt Young »

Phill wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm I was saying to one of the guys at work today- there has been this massive trend towards "reality meshes"... yeah here is that point cloud that was too big for you to deal with, turned into triangles, that are equally too big for you to deal with but look slightly more realistic. Head slap.. computers aren't ready for that level of detail on any scale other than a few sample scans. A triangle has as no more intelligence than a dot. Learn how to or figure out how to model objects from cloud. Come a play in the fourth dimension - x,y,z and information. A plane, box or cylinder contains a lot less bytes that 500,000 points, and you can hang any information you like on it. Ben Cyra knew it when he made Cyclone with all its modelling tools which have not changed for 15 years. Clouds are great but if you cant use them to give your client something that can be transferred in an email attachment you really aren't playing the game properly.

I'm sure plenty of you will chime in with "well I'd been delivering point clouds/reality models/meshes for years and our clients love them blah blah blah". I've also been doing that, but we get most of our repeat business from our clients who get what they've always got, but a little better, a little safer, sometimes a little quicker. Sometimes they get something far more comprehensive than they were expecting.

Just the old man at the back of the room having a rant after a few beers.

Cheers

Phill
Mmmm beer!
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by Matt Young »

GCFdesign wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:09 pm
Carbix wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:39 am Ok So its not to often I reach out for help... I should ask more often.

Most of our projects have been quite square. But one of our current projects has me scratching my head on QC. Vancouver has almost 0 talent base when it comes to point cloud to model techs. The school are not teaching it... I'v called and am sending the local collages point clouds just so they at least have something to try on.

SO! I want to look into ditching our current method for converting point clouds to Revit files. The options are vast, expensive and misleading. If you guys could save me months of pain from trail and error I would greatly appreciate it.

Case Study

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/exce ... lowna.html

Nothing is flat, Nothing lines up.

I would love to find software that can mesh a wall into Revit.

Current echo system is RTC360s, Reg360 and Revit. Our clients work in Autodesk and Vectorworks.
Here is a work in progress scan2Revit model l am creating currently.
Mmmm a house where they once dried hops for making beer!

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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by Scott »

Phill wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm Clouds are great but if you cant use them to give your client something that can be transferred in an email attachment you really aren't playing the game properly.
Cheers
Phill
+ 1 (for Phills' full comment)
I wonder how many of my clients actually view the sharp 2D images (eg: sections, plans, elevations) I send as email attachments to get them started on a project, before they receive the cleaned up point cloud data for Revit? I suspect that 'smart phones' have become the primary screen that people look at. Forget those splendid, large 4K monitors we work on day after day...a lot of people just stare at their postage stamp size screens (if they open the attachments at all).
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by Carbix »

Love it, thanks everyone.

So yeah point-mesh-BIM I don’t feel is the right way to go. Our models are the first step to a larger BIM project so every asset needs to have properties.

Iv ordered a trial of cloudworx and a few other platforms to see what’s going to work best. I will let you all know what we decide.

The cost of working with Leica software is too high. You need Reg360, publisher and Cloudworx. A body part per year for each.
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www.ExcelsiorLevel.com
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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by GCFdesign »

You do not need any expensive plugins.
Regards,

Gary Fellows

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Re: Scan to BIM... it hurts

Post by GavFoster »

There is no escaping the fact that creating an intelligent 3D model from point cloud data not just a coloured mesh is expensive and time consuming. The final product however is far superior in a design environment. It's not required in all projects and there is a place for a mesh solution. The example you have doesn't look that bad to be honest , its just real.
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