point cloud and pdf

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AlanRoberts
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point cloud and pdf

Post by AlanRoberts »

HI
I realise that PDF is not the ideal way to view a point cloud, but its something that a client would like. I have been trying to find official pdf documentation on its limitations, as from what I have read, the limitations are not hardware related, more adobe related, can anyone shed some light on this for me, dont want to convert to a mesh, the whole scan will be modelled in revit later, My client just wants to isolate rooms of point cloud to output to pdf
thanks
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by jamesworrell »

A point cloud, in essence is a database .. a simple, but large database.

Or at least a table in a database - basically:
x,y,z,intensity,rgb (perhaps)

The table will contain somewhere near 100 million rows and up .. obviously depending on the number of scans and point density etc .. but not a small row count either way. Whilst there are compression algorithms (someone say Euclideon?) that might make this easier to deal with - it is still a LOT of data in the context of a PDF ..

Simply put, I don't believe that the PDF is designed for this.

If you want to visualise this in PDF you need to consider some of the following options:

- reduce the point count drastically - so whilst you can have 3D pdf's .. you can't really handle hundreds of millions of points .. nor do you really want to - frankly you need things like limit boxes, measuring etc to be of any use;

- derive deliverables from the point cloud - sections, elevations and so forth which you can produce orthographic images from - say a floor plan for example - a slice through the point cloud for example which you can export as a geotiff or similar to print to scale.

Alternative? Use Recap .. it's free and easy .. and whilst it does involve the client downloading software and installing .. and then downloading the Recap project itself - it is still pretty simple - allows classification and measuring amongst other functionality ..

There are browser based alternatives naturally .. and no doubt plenty of posts will follow on this point.
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by christopherbyrne18 »

This 3D PDF Converter supports pointclouds.

https://www.pdf3d.com/

I've used it in the past to show a piping model with the pointcloud it was derived from.

It obviously doesn't support massive clouds but it does work nicely. I'll see if I can find an example.

Regards,

Chris
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by pburrows145 »

I am interested to know how many users out there see Pointclouds to PDF (or some hybrid solution linked to a JetStream service) would be useful to them. My thoughts are that the resulting PDF files are (often) too large anyway and defeats the object of making them small distributable files. Now with a solution like JetStream Viewer and JetStream disconnnected mode, the user can log in remotely or run a JS file off a USB thumb drive... being that both these solutions are dedicated 3D viewers, this would be the best solution for an end user. Thoughts?
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by jamesworrell »

+1

We are about to deploy Jetstream ..

I think a (very thin) client (web?) with Jetstream server would be a win.

Although things like measure etc would probably warrant more than a web interface .. think AR/VR here amongst other UX.

Furthermore - point clouds are one thing - the end game though I suspect is meshes. A full mesh (with baked on textures!) in a Jetstream client (web?) .. now we are talking.
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by pburrows145 »

The textured mesh thing comes up and lot and I would love to see it in JetStream Viewer/disconnected mode. I assume you'd like to see this data alongside the pointcloud with ability to switch all the various layers off such that it could become just a 3d model viewer also... and you want this in a web-browser as opposed to the 'relatively' thin client we have now...? Sort of like a TruView Global/JetStream hybrid?
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by jamesworrell »

Our firm is 100 years old this year .. we still get asked for copies of surveys/plans we prepared in the 40's, 50's etc - which we have by the way .. we imaged everything in the 90's.

I guess we see ourselves as a silo/archive .. and scan data is becoming a big part of that. More than that, we don't expect clients/owners to store it - so the hosted service is just going to be part of the future for us - I just bought another 100TB of drives ;-p

People don't want to download massive files, deal with them on their own systems and so forth.

So Jetstream will be the delivery tool.

User access control will be necessary as well. Consider the new Azure Active Directory B2B functionality - so logging in with your Azure AD credentials - all identity sits over there.

Some sites/clients we have, we have been on since the original block was bare earth .. we probably did the subdivision, the construction control etc .. think schools, uni's, hospitals.

People consuming this will range from the consultants: architects; engineers to the owners; to the facilities management guys.

So the user interface/ease of use needs to be there - and points clouds are kind of like looking at the Matrix - you get used to it - but the textures would, I assume, have to help.

So now lets add the model data into the mix. Again going back to the silo concept - where is that data ending up. Are the architects and engineers to be trusted to keep it safe? ;-p

So lets assume the model is archived in here as well and available for visualisation - at least in part - so IFC import.

Here I am looking to something like Fuzor - so model validation - especially during construction say - in a VR headset; that would be pretty cool.

The software client is less of an issue - there is always some friction with a software install .. but people get over it .. a browser takes this away, but I'd prefer a full featured client versus a browser - again, supporting things like VR, caching perhaps, local compute assistance (local GPU say).

Exciting times.
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by Euclideon_JHT »

The underlying technology powering Jet Stream is Unlimited Detail. Leica bought the SDK to use this technology from an Australian company called Euclideon.
If you are considering Jet Stream then you should also consider going directly to the source with Euclideon's Geoverse Convert and Geoverse Massive Data Manager.
We are relaunching the product with more affordable pricing and a subscription option.
Email me for more details including a 30 day free trial.

Jason Hampton-Taylor
Head of Sales and Marketing
[email protected]
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by Euclideon_JHT »

The underlying technology powering Jet Stream is Unlimited Detail. Leica bought the SDK to use this technology from an Australian company called Euclideon.
If you are considering Jet Stream then you should also consider going directly to the source with Euclideon's Geoverse Convert and Geoverse Massive Data Manager.
We are relaunching the product with more affordable pricing and a subscription option.
Email me for more details including a 30 day free trial.

Jason Hampton-Taylor
Head of Sales and Marketing
[email protected]
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Re: point cloud and pdf

Post by RSteffen »

Dear Alan,

does your client really need the point cloud? What does he want to solve?
Very often, a PDF report using orthoimages is suiteable for the client.
Please have a look to a small examle http://update.point-cab.com/demo/VillaExample.pdf generated with PointCab.

Regards,
Richard
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