New Workstation

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smacl
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Re: New Workstation

Post by smacl »

Even for a small organisation, I'd question return on investment on very high end rigs and think it makes more sense to have multiple relatively high spec rigs running different tasks at the same time. The difference between a $5k rig and $15k rig is very likely to provide $10k worth of benefit, the difference between $15k rig and a $40k rig is less likely to bring $25k of benefit. An additional workstation or two, accessed over a fast network via remote desktop can help remove processing bottlenecks though where you have compute intensive tasks and a few jobs in the pipeline. The trick is designing and analysing your workflow so that you're not systematically wasting anyone's time waiting on a slow process to finish.
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Re: New Workstation

Post by jedfrechette »

smacl wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:59 am Even for a small organisation, I'd question return on investment on very high end rigs and think it makes more sense to have multiple relatively high spec rigs running different tasks at the same time. The difference between a $5k rig and $15k rig is very likely to provide $10k worth of benefit, the difference between $15k rig and a $40k rig is less likely to bring $25k of benefit.
Agreed, although I'd probably put the limit even lower than $15k.

On a technical note, what's the advantage of using a NVME for the OS? My machines never reboot so I don't care about that and applications launch fast enough off a SSD (or even a network share) so saving the NVME's for data seems more efficient in an IO constrained environment.
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Re: New Workstation

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jedfrechette wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:30 amAgreed, although I'd probably put the limit even lower than $15k.
Definitely, my current build came in at about €2.5k and gives me pretty much all I need. If I was doing big registrations or photogrammetry jobs a €5k build with 128gb RAM, a couple of big NVME drives and a decent GPU will get through most work pretty quickly, particularly if you're not sitting doinmg nothing waiting for it.
On a technical note, what's the advantage of using a NVME for the OS? My machines never reboot so I don't care about that and applications launch fast enough off a SSD (or even a network share) so saving the NVME's for data seems more efficient in an IO constrained environment.
Probably negligible in that case but it comes down to the software, where a batch processing workflow might be firing up a lot of executables very regularly. Checking your PATH and getting rid of unnecessary entries can provide a bigger return, as can getting rid of unneeded software and updater services and making sure all your regularly used apps and folders are white listed in your security software.

If I want things to go faster, first thing I do is look for the actual bottlenecks in the system which are more to do with the software in use, the typical data being processed and the workflows than the actual hardware. No point adding memory that doesn't get used, an expensive GPU for a setup that is largely CPU bound, or a better CPU for a system that's IO bound. My experience is that you can make very big savings on computer costs by optimizing the build to fit the work being done rather than just getting a PC that is well specced across the board.
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Re: New Workstation

Post by BrettH »

smacl wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:38 am
jedfrechette wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:30 amAgreed, although I'd probably put the limit even lower than $15k.
Definitely, my current build came in at about €2.5k and gives me pretty much all I need. If I was doing big registrations or photogrammetry jobs a €5k build with 128gb RAM, a couple of big NVME drives and a decent GPU will get through most work pretty quickly, particularly if you're not sitting doinmg nothing waiting for it.
On a technical note, what's the advantage of using a NVME for the OS? My machines never reboot so I don't care about that and applications launch fast enough off a SSD (or even a network share) so saving the NVME's for data seems more efficient in an IO constrained environment.
Probably negligible in that case but it comes down to the software, where a batch processing workflow might be firing up a lot of executables very regularly. Checking your PATH and getting rid of unnecessary entries can provide a bigger return, as can getting rid of unneeded software and updater services and making sure all your regularly used apps and folders are white listed in your security software.

If I want things to go faster, first thing I do is look for the actual bottlenecks in the system which are more to do with the software in use, the typical data being processed and the workflows than the actual hardware. No point adding memory that doesn't get used, an expensive GPU for a setup that is largely CPU bound, or a better CPU for a system that's IO bound. My experience is that you can make very big savings on computer costs by optimizing the build to fit the work being done rather than just getting a PC that is well specced across the board.

Some great information thanks
what would you recommend for processing with cyclone (often very large projects) i see a lot mentioned about the i9 and then others xeon processors
I was looking at the following:
Xeon w-2145
Nvidia P5000 graphics
2 2TB Nvme
128gb Ram
As cyclone only really utilises 1 core i don't think the threadrippers will be any better for me

Cheers
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Re: New Workstation

Post by smacl »

BrettH wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:22 pmSome great information thanks
what would you recommend for processing with cyclone (often very large projects) i see a lot mentioned about the i9 and then others xeon processors
I was looking at the following:
Xeon w-2145
Nvidia P5000 graphics
2 2TB Nvme
128gb Ram
As cyclone only really utilises 1 core i don't think the threadrippers will be any better for me

Cheers
For Cyclone specifics, you're probably better asking someone else. Maybe Paul Burrows? I hadn't realised Cyclone was primarily single core for most activities but I'd expect this to change on newer releases, particularly as it is now combined with 3DR. I'd expect most modern point cloud processing to be heavily multi-threaded on time consuming operations but single threaded on operations where speed wasn't an issue. For programs that have been around a bit longer porting code to multi-threaded or GPU compute can be time consuming and often happens on an ad-hoc basis but where processing time is an issue it is something that will happen. If you think about it, most modern CPUs you'll see in a workstation have 16 or more concurrent threads, so single threaded code is only using 6.25% of available processing power.

Best starting point is to fire up task manager the next time your PC is straining under load and have a look to see which resources (CPU/GPU/Memory/Disk/Network) are topping out at 100%. If none of them are, and the CPU is running at 100/(available cores) single threading is the issue and your i9 at high clock rate is a good bet.

There's also a lot of discussion on whether you're better served by the likes of 2080ti or Quadro P5000, where the former is half the price. See the following; https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/N ... 7vsm197331
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Re: New Workstation

Post by Bimbox »

Ifyou have not checked out our workstations, you should now.

We just released the Osprey series which is designed for scan registration. We developed it in partnership with AMD. Built on the Threadripper Gen 3 Platform with 24 Core, 32 Core, and 64 Core Options, All Overclocked to 4.2Ghz, up to 26TB of NVMe Storage, the base model comes with 128GB DDR4 3200 Cl15 RAM.

We have beat BOXX in every client evaluation for the past 3-year.

Our Stryker II workstation is the fastest Revit/Cad System available. We have a 30 Day Money-back net-30 option which makes it pretty easy to test one out.

If you're looking for more info, reach out to me [email protected].
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Re: New Workstation

Post by Ioannis »

I was thinking also to build a new workstation as I also work with photogrammetry programs like Bentley, Reality Capture and cyclone revit e.t.c.
I was thinking a AMD 3990x or a dual i9-7980XE also using 2-3 GPU like RTX 2070 together it makes any big difference ?
Windows 10, and 2tb m2 for the main system.
Any suggestions are welcome.
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Re: New Workstation

Post by Bimbox »

Bently products really benefit from GPU acceleration. 3990X is a great choice. Make sure you focus on keeping it cool. IT gets extremely hot. Our engineers spent several months working on our case development as well as cooler selection to get the right mix of airflow and thermal mitigation.
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Re: New Workstation

Post by Ioannis »

Yes cooling system is something that is very tricky, what do you choose water cooling or fans? Noctua has great systems.
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Re: New Workstation

Post by Bimbox »

I would recommend liquid for a couple of reasons. The 3990X gets really hot. We were delid'ing them but were able to get within 8% of the same OC with the cooling config our engineers came up with, so the 2 days labor to delid and lapping the 5 die didn't make sense.
The software you’re using just takes time due to the amount of data autonomous vehicles and terrestrial scanners can create. The Threadripper is going to speed the process up dramatically, but depending upon the number of photos you’re processing or scans you’re registering each sitting, the process still takes time, which means the processor is going to get hot. If you cannot keep it cool. It will slow down. We have a couple of clients that work with hundreds of scans per week and the difference in cooling between Threadripper systems is dramatic and its based-on cooling. Some will run 4.2Ghz under load for durations and some will run closer to 3.4Ghz.
Additionally, the liquid cooler will allow you to dissipate that heat directly out of your case, whereas the air cooler will inevitably raise the temps inside the case, which is going to hurt the other components, mainly the GPU’s, which are already going to be going full force, and I am guessing a PCIe 4.0 drive, which are known to throttle without any help.
If you’re spending the $3k+ on the CPU, plan for about 10% in cooling. (Aftermarket Fans + Cooler) That is what I go with for personal builds.

We have a pretty cool article coming out on the AMD page in the coming months about the partnership between AMD Leica and BIMBOX. AMD is working with the Leica team on some software optimization for the Threadripper processor, and we have provided the systems for their testing. Our role is to be monitoring the hardware to see limitations in the registration process, i.e. when it does not scale to 128 cores, or does not use expected % of RAM. Will share, but Cyclone is a great product and their team is constantly working to make the processing better.
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