Cyclone Enterprise use

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Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gsisman »

IS there anyone else on this entire forum that is using Cyclone Enterprise- the Cloud Base web service with LGS-Jetstream technology?
Just curious....we invested heavily in this workflow only to have Leica seemingly stop midstream to put all the programming eggs in the HxDR basket.
That is just not feasible right now from our standpoint as a Government entity. I have not seen any progress or any new release data for the next version when the last version came out in Feb 7 2022 v2022.0.0 with an update Patch that fixed windows compatibility and updated the branding logos in May 2022 v2022.0.1 ....I guess if no one is not jumping on board they have little incentive to repair some major discrepancies between the TruView Desktop app (Connected to Cyclone Enterprise and what they called their TRUE Collaboration scenario with TruView Live- which requires some hefty graphic capability on the server side (MS AZure for us).

https://app.screencast.com/qnHuZck4aPWCv

At $5k USD a year, you'd think we could get a little more for our money, considering the backend support for that is closer to $18k/yr.......sigh....the taxpaying consultants are angry...
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gord »

gsisman wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:07 pm IS there anyone else on this entire forum that is using Cyclone Enterprise- the Cloud Base web service with LGS-Jetstream technology?
Just curious....we invested heavily in this workflow only to have Leica seemingly stop midstream to put all the programming eggs in the HxDR basket.
That is just not feasible right now from our standpoint as a Government entity. I have not seen any progress or any new release data for the next version when the last version came out in Feb 7 2022 v2022.0.0 with an update Patch that fixed windows compatibility and updated the branding logos in May 2022 v2022.0.1 ....I guess if no one is not jumping on board they have little incentive to repair some major discrepancies between the TruView Desktop app (Connected to Cyclone Enterprise and what they called their TRUE Collaboration scenario with TruView Live- which requires some hefty graphic capability on the server side (MS AZure for us).

https://app.screencast.com/qnHuZck4aPWCv

At $5k USD a year, you'd think we could get a little more for our money, considering the backend support for that is closer to $18k/yr.......sigh....the taxpaying consultants are angry...

Based on your other post - viewtopic.php?t=20582 - it looks like you get a variety of municipal Civil projects ..

I guess a lot of it is sharing annotations on the pointcloud between users, to plan problems and fixes, and then import into Civil3D for detailed modelling ?

There seem to be two workflow stages, with different requirements :
- analysis and planning : which needs a shared pointcloud for all stakeholders, where they can view and share annotations between them in browser
- formal design drawings : which needs Civil3D [ and I guess Recap to convert the .laz/.e57 pointcloud to RCP/RCS so you can import to autocad/civil3D/Revit for detailed modelling ]


Forgive the naive Question .. if you had something like a Potree web viewer where you could share annotations/linework over the web with only approved users.. would that achieve most of what you need ?

Potree is pretty fast if served on an intranet, assuming your users have mid-level graphics and recent chrome/firefox ..
you can also configure it on a web server behind a user login firewall to allow only approved users access [ I've set this up a couple times ]

Stock-standard Potree lets you do annotations [ boxes, circles, text notes, line measurements ], but these cant be saved to 'the cloud' and shared easily between users - but a few companies [ including my 'startup' ] add their own special sauce on top of that.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gsisman »

gord wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:44 am
gsisman wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:07 pm IS there anyone else on this entire forum that is using Cyclone Enterprise- the Cloud Base web service with LGS-Jetstream technology?
Just curious....we invested heavily in this workflow only to have Leica seemingly stop midstream to put all the programming eggs in the HxDR basket.
That is just not feasible right now from our standpoint as a Government entity. I have not seen any progress or any new release data for the next version when the last version came out in Feb 7 2022 v2022.0.0 with an update Patch that fixed windows compatibility and updated the branding logos in May 2022 v2022.0.1 ....I guess if no one is not jumping on board they have little incentive to repair some major discrepancies between the TruView Desktop app (Connected to Cyclone Enterprise and what they called their TRUE Collaboration scenario with TruView Live- which requires some hefty graphic capability on the server side (MS AZure for us).

https://app.screencast.com/qnHuZck4aPWCv

At $5k USD a year, you'd think we could get a little more for our money, considering the backend support for that is closer to $18k/yr.......sigh....the taxpaying consultants are angry...

Based on your other post - viewtopic.php?t=20582 - it looks like you get a variety of municipal Civil projects ..

I guess a lot of it is sharing annotations on the pointcloud between users, to plan problems and fixes, and then import into Civil3D for detailed modelling ?
Measurements, geotags with associated weblinks or detailed picture links, quick Isolated area of interest clips of the larger pointcloud, etc

There seem to be two workflow stages, with different requirements :
- analysis and planning : which needs a shared pointcloud for all stakeholders, where they can view and share annotations between them in browser
- formal design drawings : which needs Civil3D [ and I guess Recap to convert the .laz/.e57 pointcloud to RCP/RCS so you can import to autocad/civil3D/Revit for detailed modelling ] [/quote]-The latter needed if they don't have a Cloudworx license, which is a plugin for most CAD programs Autodesk, Revit Navis Works, Bricscad ,dgn ???


Forgive the naive Question .. if you had something like a Potree web viewer where you could share annotations/linework over the web with only approved users.. would that achieve most of what you need ? [/quote]
Well I think that is what a myriad of new developers are using and it works pretty well-but being an Aussie you should know that the Jetstream/Cyclone Enterprise tm core technology is licensed from Euclidian https://www.euclideon.com/udstream.html-another Aussie company for streaming very larger pointcloud dataset over the web- Leica has put their customized "Wrapper" around it

Potree is pretty fast if served on an intranet, assuming your users have mid-level graphics and recent chrome/firefox .. [/quote]I think there are some Potree plugins out there for CAD UnDet and veesus possibly, but the big players in the web=mesh viewing arena, I don't think have a plug in for CAD yet- Web to CAD, not CAD to Web. Trying to get away from all the conversion requirements because the Proprietary front of the workflow

....you can also configure it on a web server behind a user login firewall to allow only approved users access [ I've set this up a couple times ][/quote]but our County TEBS/IT division is not happy with our "rogue" setup OUTSIDE the County's own AZURE domain -we are already totally immersed in the Office360 and web-based environment, since Covid, but until this year they could not deliver the through-put we needed for this type of web-service, as for your last comment you are right , and I'm sure there will be dozens more in the coming years as well as web-mesh viewers with the growing ubiquitous use of the Mobile phone and Tablet scanners. My bet is Samsung will be the next one out with one Stock-standard Potree lets you do annotations [ boxes, circles, text notes, line measurements ], but these cant be saved to 'the cloud' and shared easily between users - but a few companies [ including my 'startup' ] add their own special sauce on top of that.[/quote]





Gord,

I've tried to answer your questions in the list above in BOLD
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by pburrows145 »

CyEnt offers an on-prem solution for storing and collaborating, while RCS provides a SaaS solution, which takes additional advantage of the power of cloud computing to include automated registration and meshing.

There is a planned release of CyEnt in November.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gord »

gsisman wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:03 pm
Measurements, geotags with associated weblinks or detailed picture links, quick Isolated area of interest clips of the larger pointcloud, etc
'weblinks' was one of things I needed over base potree. Being able to easily add URL links to a Note at a point in the 3D space .. then have another user tap that web link and it open a document/image in another tab. pretty handy.
gsisman wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:03 pm
... our County TEBS/IT division is not happy with our "rogue" setup OUTSIDE the County's own AZURE domain
Interesting .. I see a common practice for Potree installs to host the bulk of the data on Amazon/AWS S3.
Potrees new data format is a json config and 2 big files - the front end browser reads 'ranges' of those to get chunks of the point data, as needed. :geek:

Azure does have Blob storage, which supports range queries - like S3 does - so you could theoretically host potree data within your orgs Azure domain.


ps. thanks @gsisman for the detailed reply and insights, much to absorb.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gsisman »

pburrows145 wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:36 pm CyEnt offers an on-prem solution for storing and collaborating, while RCS provides a SaaS solution, which takes additional advantage of the power of cloud computing to include automated registration and meshing.

There is a planned release of CyEnt in November.
Well, I'm pretty disappointed with the latest release of CE v 2023.1.0- in the realm of TruView Live which is the REAL collaboration tool since it doesn't involve a HEAVY graphics capability on the END-USERS side. You can do much more from the standpoint of using TruView Desktop viewer (heavy weight) but that defeats the purpose of wide collaborative web-viewer/mobile viewing.
In fact I'm not sure that we gained ANY functionality in TruView Live Since Feb 2022, even though the backend to run it on the cloud is about $2k+ /month and $5k ?? for the subscription per year??
I guess you were funding the development of HxDR.
Like I said before I doubt any significant producer of scans with any government affiliation here in the states is going to use HXDR because of on-prem and security guidelines, (Don't know how Europe and the EU operate.

If anyone wants to try our CE / Azure Installation to see for yourself send me a PM. I have a sample job from a BLK360 from about 2018 and I can make another newer one available that is outdoors oriented (Street Scape) .We have a 1GB internet connection and it works pretty well at the speed and above, particularly when Images are involved (Which they are for almost any LGS files we load.

Here are some sample screen clips
Sample Sitemap CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms RGB Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms BW intensity Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms Multi-Hue intensity Capture.JPG
Pano LDR CE 2023.1 Setup view Capture.JPG
Pano BW Scan cloud CE 2023.1 Setup view w measure Capture.JPG
Pano BW Scan cloud RTC360 CE 2023.1 Setup view w Simple measure Capture.JPG
Pano HDR RTC360 CE 2023.1 Setup view Capture.JPG
Pano NO IR PHOTO CE 2023.1 Setup view TV LIVE Capture.JPG
Pano IR PHOTO CE 2023.1 Setup view TV Desktop Capture.JPG
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Last edited by gsisman on Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by pburrows145 »

gsisman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:24 pm
pburrows145 wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:36 pm CyEnt offers an on-prem solution for storing and collaborating, while RCS provides a SaaS solution, which takes additional advantage of the power of cloud computing to include automated registration and meshing.

There is a planned release of CyEnt in November.
Well, I'm pretty disappointed with the latest release of CE v 2023.1.0- in the realm of TruView Live which is the REAL collaboration tool since it doesn't involve a HEAVY graphics capability on the END-USERS side. You can do much more from the standpoint of using TruView Desktop viewer (heavy weight) but that defeats the purpose of wide collaborative web-viewer/mobile viewing.
In fact I'm not sure that we gained ANY functionality in TruView Live Since Feb 2022, even though the backend to run it on the cloud is about $2k+ /month and $5k ?? for the subscription per year??
I guess you were funding the development of HxDR.
Like I said before I doubt any significant producer of scans with any government affiliation here in the states id going to use HXDR because of on-prem and security guidelines, (Don't know how Europe and the EU operate.

If anyone wants to try our CE / Azure Installation to see for yourself send me a PM. I have a sample job from a BLK360 from about 2018 and I can make another newer one available that is outdoors oriented (Street Scape) .We have a 1GB internet connection and it works pretty well at the speed and above, particularly when Images are involved (Which they are for almost any LGS file we load.

Here are some sample screen clips

Sample Sitemap CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms RGB Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms BW intensity Capture.JPG
ORBIT CE v2023.1 PArking Garage rooms Multi-Hue intensity Capture.JPG
Pano LDR CE 2023.1 Setup view Capture.JPG
Pano BW Scan cloud CE 2023.1 Setup view w measure Capture.JPG
Pano BW Scan cloud RTC360 CE 2023.1 Setup view w Simple measure Capture.JPG
Pano HDR RTC360 CE 2023.1 Setup view Capture.JPG
Pano NO IR PHOTO CE 2023.1 Setup view TV LIVE Capture.JPG
Pano IR PHOTO CE 2023.1 Setup view TV Desktop Capture.JPG
CyEnt will continue (in my opinion) for as long as there is not an on-prem version of Reality Cloud Studio. We fully understand a lot of customers will not want a cloud-based solution, hence why CyEnt MUST stay available.

Can I ask what specific advancements you'd like to see in TruView LIVE? I am genuinely interested - perhaps start with a top 5 and I shall see how they align with the development roadmap?

As for funding being diverted to HxDR... this is simply not the case as multiple global teams are involved in the back-end services which make up HxDR - we have provided PM support and integration of our core algorithms, but no attention has been actively diverted from core RC SW solutions.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gsisman »

pburrows145 wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:39 am
gsisman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:24 pm
pburrows145 wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:36 pm CyEnt offers an on-prem solution for storing and collaborating, while RCS provides a SaaS solution, which takes additional advantage of the power of cloud computing to include automated registration and meshing.

There is a planned release of CyEnt in November.
Well, I'm pretty disappointed with the latest release of CE v 2023.1.0- in the realm of TruView Live which is the REAL collaboration tool since it doesn't involve a HEAVY graphics capability on the END-USERS side. You can do much more from the standpoint of using TruView Desktop viewer (heavy weight) but that defeats the purpose of wide collaborative web-viewer/mobile viewing.
Like I said before I doubt any significant producer of scans with any government affiliation here in the states id going to use HXDR because of on-prem and security guidelines, (Don't know how Europe and the EU operate.

If anyone wants to try our CE / Azure Installation to see for yourself send me a PM. I have a sample job from a BLK360 from about 2018 and I can make another newer one available that is outdoors oriented (Street Scape) .We have a 1GB internet connection and it works pretty well at the speed and above, particularly when Images are involved (Which they are for almost any LGS file we load.

Here are some sample screen clips
CyEnt will continue (in my opinion) for as long as there is not an on-prem version of Reality Cloud Studio. We fully understand a lot of customers will not want a cloud-based solution, hence why CyEnt MUST stay available.

Can I ask what specific advancements you'd like to see in TruView LIVE? I am genuinely interested - perhaps start with a top 5 and I shall see how they align with the development roadmap?

As for funding being diverted to HxDR... this is simply not the case as multiple global teams are involved in the back-end services which make up HxDR - we have provided PM support and integration of our core algorithms, but no attention has been actively diverted from core RC SW solutions.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Paul,

The simple start would be total parity with the Desktop version of TruView.
Anybody at Leica/Hexagon can view the disparity between the two products as soon as you open them- if you have been using and viewing LGS files or CE files with the desktop viewer.

The bottom line is the desktop viewer requires a pretty beefy graphics card for good and efficient manipulation. While that can be maybe not a problem with TECHNICIANS accessing the Pointclouds, it is a real problem with cross sectional stakeholders accessing the data. It requires quite and investment on the backend (Cloud-server) portion- which you well know from HxDR. Much more than the subscription cost of CE. Very little if any of the capabilities added to TruView v2023.1.0 have been added to TruVew Live since it's inception.

That would be a BIG first step. I could give you a bullet-type list. But anyone at Leica can make that list by opening CE on their Desktop and opening TruView live on the same project on the web-browser. That is why I invited others to try- so they also could see the vast difference.

Not many companies, except large ones would invest in something like Cyclone Enterprise with an ROI for a permanent license timeframe (if that is even still on the roadmap) of about 9-12 years just for the software. That is an eternity in this tech driven market. And the back end cost of $15-20k per year for "driving a multiuser rented Cloud space", similar to your AWS cloud based HxDR ,makes it harder when you can even demonstrate the benefits of it without them installing a piece of Heavy-weight Cloud Viewer (almost 1TB now vs 200mb when it started as JSV) .

But we are in the middle of developing an Archive-based 3D Library on our County wide projects from the last 7 years so the long term viability is critical. We had to go "rogue" outside of County IT Networks because of the deficient through-put up until this year and now we can't even feel comfortable demonstrating it to our internal AND/OR external Consultant clients because of the deficiencies in TruView Live.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by Rad_scanner »

gsisman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:47 pm The bottom line is the desktop viewer requires a pretty beefy graphics card for good and efficient manipulation. While that can be maybe not a problem with TECHNICIANS accessing the Pointclouds, it is a real problem with cross sectional stakeholders accessing the data. It requires quite and investment on the backend (Cloud-server) portion- which you well know from HxDR. Much more than the subscription cost of CE. Very little if any of the capabilities added to TruView v2023.1.0 have been added to TruVew Live since it's inception.
When opening a large LGS locally saved with Desktop TruView, then yes its pretty demanding, But using TruView Desktop and connecting it to CyEnt is a game changer. Since the data is streamed it loads a lot less data which doesn't cripple avg computers. I have users who are using some crappy laptops with integrated graphics from a company that I wont name (starts with a D, ends with ell) and they can view a 456 setup project that has 19 Billion points when connected to CyEnt via TruView Desktop.

TruView live does work really well for people who are on our site, but due to our company VPN/network security, our remote connects are terrible. Some instance TruView Live leaves some users with bad experience since the controls are stream so they can be stuck flying past where they wanted to go in the Point Cloud. But since I got them to connect to CyEnt using the desktop app on the crappy laptop, its very usable.

Also note that before I implemented CyEnt on prem here, we had a company who delivered a "Cloud base solution" and a stand alone solution. They gave us a PoTree reskinned product and a stand alone Unreal Engine .exe with an .e57 loaded in it. You want to talk about a GPU killer, this is it right here. The PoTree was not usable for remote workers and even our onsite workers with the Onboard intel GPU couldn't open the projects. The cost for 1 year for 30 users for 1 project was the same cost of buying a our own server and a perm license of Cyclone Enterprise.

Also thank god Leica removed the requirments for Connector license for "user" type accounts. since 95% of my users are just "users" i have been running with only 5 connector license for our "power users" and above.

On the topic of improvements, CyEnt 2023.1 and 2024.0.1 didnt really see anything new. Here are some suggestion in response to Paul.

TruView Live
1. Watermark or overlay so that we can add Security identifier. When looking around in a Pano picture, would be nice to have a watermark in a corner of TruView Live that can be set by the system owner.
2. Option to change the mouse movement, invert the controls as some users are used to Google street view
3. Notification pop up window. after login in, allow for the system owner to have a text box window which we can put our compony policies in it or hyperlink to them
4. revisit the Goup/User permissions. would be nice to allow some users access to manipulate Models with ought giving them power user.
5. SSL with Microsoft or something

TruView desktop
1. Inverted Limit box. Allow to flip to show outside or inside the limit box (be great for when proposing to cut a 4x4 hole in a wall to get equipment out)
2. view by Classification has the Colour by Scanner or RGB option, would be nice to toggle a class off but still see the point cloud in colour.
3. Measurement tool with a fixed axis. For example. take a measurement from a pipe or beam and give me a perfect straight line to the floor so I can know the distance, without having to move and navigate to ensure my line is straight down.
4. Crop box option that applies to it to the PointCloud and/or Model asset.

If you want more feed back and suggestions, feel free to msg me.
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Re: Cyclone Enterprise use

Post by gsisman »

Rad_scanner wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:03 pm
gsisman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:47 pm The bottom line is the desktop viewer requires a pretty beefy graphics card for good and efficient manipulation. While that can be maybe not a problem with TECHNICIANS accessing the Pointclouds, it is a real problem with cross sectional stakeholders accessing the data. It requires quite and investment on the backend (Cloud-server) portion- which you well know from HxDR. Much more than the subscription cost of CE. Very little if any of the capabilities added to TruView v2023.1.0 have been added to TruVew Live since it's inception.
When opening a large LGS locally saved with Desktop TruView, then yes its pretty demanding, But using TruView Desktop and connecting it to CyEnt is a game changer. Since the data is streamed it loads a lot less data which doesn't cripple avg computers. I have users who are using some crappy laptops with integrated graphics from a company that I wont name (starts with a D, ends with ell) and they can view a 456 setup project that has 19 Billion points when connected to CyEnt via TruView Desktop. I WILL HAVE TO TEST THIS ON OUR 100MB ANCIENT NETWORK WITH OUR STANDARD ISSUE LENOVO CARBON LAPTOPS (6GB Integrated Graphics, with I7 vPro and 8GB RAM)/b]

TruView live does work really well for people who are on our site, but due to our company VPN/network security, our remote connects are terrible. Some instance TruView Live leaves some users with bad experience since the controls are stream so they can be stuck flying past where they wanted to go in the Point Cloud. But since I got them to connect to CyEnt using the desktop app on the crappy laptop, its very usable.

Also note that before I implemented CyEnt on prem here, we had a company who delivered a "Cloud base solution" and a stand alone solution. They gave us a PoTree reskinned product and a stand alone Unreal Engine .exe with an .e57 loaded in it. You want to talk about a GPU killer, this is it right here. The PoTree was not usable for remote workers and even our onsite workers with the Onboard intel GPU couldn't open the projects. The cost for 1 year for 30 users for 1 project was the same cost of buying a our own server and a perm license of Cyclone Enterprise.

Also thank god Leica removed the requirments for Connector license for "user" type accounts. since 95% of my users are just "users" i have been running with only 5 connector license for our "power users" and above.- (DIDN"T KNOW THIS)

On the topic of improvements, CyEnt 2023.1 and 2024.0.1 didnt really see anything new. Here are some suggestion in response to Paul.
-DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A NEW RELEASE OUT YET??

TruView Live
1. Watermark or overlay so that we can add Security identifier. When looking around in a Pano picture, would be nice to have a watermark in a corner of TruView Live that can be set by the system owner.GOOD IDEA
2. Option to change the mouse movement, invert the controls as some users are used to Google street view
3. Notification pop up window. after login in, allow for the system owner to have a text box window which we can put our compony policies in it or hyperlink to them YES DISCLAIMER LIKE ON GIS WEB APPS
4. revisit the Goup/User permissions. would be nice to allow some users access to manipulate Models with ought giving them power user.
5. SSL with Microsoft or something- YEP WE'LL NEED THAT MOVING FORWARD

TruView desktop
1. Inverted Limit box. Allow to flip to show outside or inside the limit box (be great for when proposing to cut a 4x4 hole in a wall to get equipment out)
2. view by Classification has the Colour by Scanner or RGB option, would be nice to toggle a class off but still see the point cloud in colour.
3. Measurement tool with a fixed axis. For example. take a measurement from a pipe or beam and give me a perfect straight line to the floor so I can know the distance, without having to move and navigate to ensure my line is straight down. -YES A REAL PAIN- JUST GIVE US A STRAIGHT Z DIRECTION OR STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL ALONG WITH 3D
4. Crop box option that applies to it to the PointCloud and/or Model asset.

If you want more feed back and suggestions, feel free to msg me.- WILL DO,AS SOON AS I GET OUR CE SET ON PREM- WE MOVED IT OFF AZURE TEMPORARILY BECAUSE OF THE COST
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