RTC360 Not really that fast

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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by jamesworrell »

daniel.jansson wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:20 am I guess it is not only Leica then. But why even put the timer there since it doesn't even tell you anything? Does someone know if in the new firmware this accuracy mode add anything to the timer? Why add this time to the timer and not other start up sequences in that case?
For one - the timer gives a visual indication of the current config. I know I want a 1:51 scan for example which is medium colour - and you can see this from a distance. Perhaps from a UX perspective a colour coded screen could be a more visual indicator, but the timer tells me very quickly what I want to know.

Higher accuracy IMU does add another turn or so.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by daniel.jansson »

jedfrechette wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:00 pm I'm pretty sure all Faro scanners take longer than the "spec sheet time" too. Honestly, I haven't paid to much attention though. For these kinds of estimating purposes I've always just bundled together scan time and setup time, i.e. in a particular type of environment how many scans can an experienced operator do in 1 hour. Usually that number comes from experience on previous similar projects rather than trying to estimate it from first principles.
It was so long ago I used a Faro so I can't actually remember either, I think I just trusted the numbers then as well and didn't think much of it. It is quite hard in the field to know if you waited 180 seconds or 200 seconds without timing it.

Previously we have always done as you said. But as I said, I wanted a better way to calculate this. Sometimes projects takes longer than expected and sometimes shorter so it
jamesworrell wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:54 pm For one - the timer gives a visual indication of the current config. I know I want a 1:51 scan for example which is medium colour - and you can see this from a distance. Perhaps from a UX perspective a colour coded screen could be a more visual indicator, but the timer tells me very quickly what I want to know.

Higher accuracy IMU does add another turn or so.
To have a timer show your config is a quite bad UX, since you already have your config below. Why would I need to see my settings from far away? Before scanning I will have to press play on the scanner anyway, and then I am perfectly close to seeing my settings. Or I start the scanner from the app and then I see my settings there as well.

Yes, I know higher accuracy mode does another turn, but does it add time to the timer? Is a high accuracy medium scan with photos 2:15 for example? If it is, then why not just add all the different steps to the timer. You would still be able to see from far away if it is a medium scan, it would just say 2:10 instead. Plus the timer would actually work as a timer, which should be the main function of having a timer.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by jamesworrell »

daniel.jansson wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:23 am To have a timer show your config is a quite bad UX, since you already have your config below. Why would I need to see my settings from far away?
Perhaps rephrase - see config at a glance. The small icons are not exactly obvious as to config, the big timer is.

Realistically the VIS tracking icon should go off the main screen - it should be deeper in the menus - we have accidentally turned that off carrying it from time-to-time - I can't envisage a use case where it is turned off (the LT version makes no sense either, but I digress).

At the end of the day, it is a countdown timer and it finishes accurately, so you know how long till you can pick it up and move it, what difference does it make when it starts? Not like the extra 20 seconds is going to change your decision to go get a coffee. ;-p

Perhaps hide the timer and have large words "MEDIUM" + "IMAGES" or similar - once it spins up, the countdown kicks in.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by stevenramsey »


Perhaps hide the timer and have large words "MEDIUM" + "IMAGES" or similar - once it spins up, the countdown kicks in.
That would mean language packs i guess
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by Inception »

Land surveyors... When measuring 2 million points per second is still "not really that fast"
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by Dirkie2710 »

The timing things has always been a bit misleading (at least on Leica). P-series scans have the same issue.
Spinning up is about 5seconds, turning back another 5. Images times are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Time it shows is based on minimum shutter speed not real-world. Found it better to preset the exposure. Gives a truer time indication.

If using the RTC, I have a 2:10 timer on my wristwatch that I set off each time I press play. While scanners spins up I have 5-10seconds, it then scans (1:51 scan) and then turns back and saves. I found if you get too close in that last "1 second" space it gets stuck sometimes. I think its because in that time the VIS is trying to get some info before you move and if you are suddenly blocking 3 cameras while waiting for it to finish up it takes longer. Hence me hanging back until the 2:10 is up and its usually done.

I work on 2 different scenarios. All my scans require colour so I don't have a reference for non-colour. But on the RTC, medium res with images (1:51 scans) I should be able to do around 22-23 scans/hour if it's open space (carpark/office/shopping centre etc) and 15-17 scans/hour in more condensed spaces (plantrooms/conveyors/catwalks etc).

Main difference is due to moving from A to B easily. Running it from the iPad is crap. Start the first 2 scans using that, then dump it and just use the scanner button. Less to carry around and less time to "transfer" to iPad and fiddle with it while you could be scanning. It can transfer at the end of day/lunchtime or something.

P-series in colour has custom setup so can do around 12 colour scans per hour in open spaces.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by daniel.jansson »

Inception wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:38 am Land surveyors... When measuring 2 million points per second is still "not really that fast"
Thanks for your useful input. Where can I find this "2 million points per second"-scanner cause it sounds great! Since a low res scan is around 10 million points, to scan this with 2M pts/s, that is 5 seconds per scan!

This would be much better than my RTC360 with around 200 thousand pts/s.
Dirkie2710 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:35 am The timing things has always been a bit misleading (at least on Leica).
Maybe this sums it up.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by Dirkie2710 »

I think (guessing here pretty much) it's not the actual number of recorded returns but the total number of sent.
A Medium scan is 0:50, but res is 4166 * 10168 = 42 359 888pts. if 2mil pts/sec x 50sec we should get 100mil pts.
Real world is ~850 000pts/sec

RTC360 is 2m pts/sec. Spec sheet says 6mm@10m scan in <2min with images
RTC360LT is 1m pts/sec. Spec sheet says 6mm@10m scan in <3min with images.

Someone smarter than me will probably tell us why, but I guess it's sending 2 "beams" and averaging the 2 and recording 1. That's why the LT is half as quick at same res (2mil vs 1mil)

Where are the smart people to tell us?

Later
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by jamesworrell »

Pretty sure in manual somewhere, but seem to recall .. low-res = 2 million/sec up to ~60m range .. medium+high = 1 million/sec up to ~130 range.

Technically it is faster than this - sends 2 x pulses for each "pulse" - high and lower power to cater for dark/light surfaces - keeps one.
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Re: RTC360 Not really that fast

Post by badam »

jamesworrell wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:28 am Pretty sure in manual somewhere, but seem to recall .. low-res = 2 million/sec up to ~60m range .. medium+high = 1 million/sec up to ~130 range.

Technically it is faster than this - sends 2 x pulses for each "pulse" - high and lower power to cater for dark/light surfaces - keeps one.
that is not true ;)

low res 400'000 point/s 130m
midle 800'000point/s 130m
high 1,6 mp/s 65m

just look at a vg* file in a setup folder...

and not the power differents for (dark/white) instead different wavelenght but i think those sent simultanously.
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