Point cloud as user interface for BIM
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Point cloud as user interface for BIM
Laser scanning, photogrammetry and other data collection methods are advancing to the point where collecting data and processing into point clouds is becoming more and more economical. Information is the key component in BIM. The 3D CAD model that is created has accepted deviations to varying degrees from the actual conditions. Viewing options for the point clouds are becoming less cumbersome and easier to visualize.
Is there a software or combination of software that could take the point cloud and use it as the physical model user interface for a BIM system? Detailed 3D/2D models could be incorporated as needed through links to the point cloud. Could this be expanded to use the point cloud as the basis for FM systems?
Is there a software or combination of software that could take the point cloud and use it as the physical model user interface for a BIM system? Detailed 3D/2D models could be incorporated as needed through links to the point cloud. Could this be expanded to use the point cloud as the basis for FM systems?
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
Don't know of one currently .. but .. some time into the future - "yes" ..
There is no obvious way to attach attribute data (the I in BIM) to a mesh or points - you need objects.
Having said that - imagine throwing the algorithms in Google's self-driving cars against point clouds - which is what they do already - and teaching the system - machine learning - which is what they do already .. but instead of roads, apply it to the built environment.
The machine learning could in theory be taught to recognise a door, a tap, a column, a valve, a photo copier, a person (it knows this one already!) ... then process your point cloud or your imagery - or do it all in real-time via your backpack/car/uav ..
You would now have your model derived from point cloud/photogrammetry.
Check out this video which discusses the sensors and machine learning as it stands:
https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_ ... anguage=en
Consider that the Google car can recognise TODAY: emergency vehicles, can understand a police officer directing traffic .. one must think that recognising a wall and mapping it is childs play.
There is no obvious way to attach attribute data (the I in BIM) to a mesh or points - you need objects.
Having said that - imagine throwing the algorithms in Google's self-driving cars against point clouds - which is what they do already - and teaching the system - machine learning - which is what they do already .. but instead of roads, apply it to the built environment.
The machine learning could in theory be taught to recognise a door, a tap, a column, a valve, a photo copier, a person (it knows this one already!) ... then process your point cloud or your imagery - or do it all in real-time via your backpack/car/uav ..
You would now have your model derived from point cloud/photogrammetry.
Check out this video which discusses the sensors and machine learning as it stands:
https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_ ... anguage=en
Consider that the Google car can recognise TODAY: emergency vehicles, can understand a police officer directing traffic .. one must think that recognising a wall and mapping it is childs play.
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
I will be speaking from my knowledge as a Faro user but do not wish to exclude TruView or other platforms. I believe they have similar capabilities. I am just not familiar with them.
With Webshare hot spots can be inserted into the planar view and used to attach information to. While not parametric attributes they could be configured in a way not to conflict with IFC definitions if the project were to be imported into a traditional modeling program. If this capability could be added to a project point cloud that could be easily navigated with a tablet in the field it would fit the definition of a building information model. Smaller projects that do not have the budgets to create a parametric model could benefit from the information sharing capabilities of a system like this. If configured properly it could also be used as a "quick start" to larger projects allowing conditions to be recorded while the 3D CAD model is being created.
Just throwing this out there to all of the people smarter than I. I would be happy to help design, experiment and implement any ideas or systems such as this.
With Webshare hot spots can be inserted into the planar view and used to attach information to. While not parametric attributes they could be configured in a way not to conflict with IFC definitions if the project were to be imported into a traditional modeling program. If this capability could be added to a project point cloud that could be easily navigated with a tablet in the field it would fit the definition of a building information model. Smaller projects that do not have the budgets to create a parametric model could benefit from the information sharing capabilities of a system like this. If configured properly it could also be used as a "quick start" to larger projects allowing conditions to be recorded while the 3D CAD model is being created.
Just throwing this out there to all of the people smarter than I. I would be happy to help design, experiment and implement any ideas or systems such as this.
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
If BIM is building information management then this is possible and is currently used with the Plant Asset Management environment. True view and LFM NetView have and are used as the 3D visualisation and navigation tool for several years.
The asset management system already knows what document contains what tag and its location within the document. When a user either searches for a tag all documents containing the tag are listed, or a tagged item within a document is selected all associated documents will be listed.
In a simple example when working with of TruView or LFM NetView tags can be identified within the bubble and loaded into the asset management system, so when the users selects the tag the view will be open and the view rotated so the tag is visible. The user can then select a neighbouring tag and find associated referenced item.
Users much prefer using the bubble view then a 3D model as in operations there can be a lack of trust in the 3D model, when they see the rusty pipe and leaking valve with the tag they find it much more credible.
As to divergence between real world conditions and design conditions there are plenty of articles on this matter. It does come down to understanding the restriction of use of documents.
The asset management system already knows what document contains what tag and its location within the document. When a user either searches for a tag all documents containing the tag are listed, or a tagged item within a document is selected all associated documents will be listed.
In a simple example when working with of TruView or LFM NetView tags can be identified within the bubble and loaded into the asset management system, so when the users selects the tag the view will be open and the view rotated so the tag is visible. The user can then select a neighbouring tag and find associated referenced item.
Users much prefer using the bubble view then a 3D model as in operations there can be a lack of trust in the 3D model, when they see the rusty pipe and leaking valve with the tag they find it much more credible.
As to divergence between real world conditions and design conditions there are plenty of articles on this matter. It does come down to understanding the restriction of use of documents.
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
For as-built BIM I can definitely see this as a way forward. Too many times now we have been asked to create a 3D model of a building to what is equivalent to 1:5, 1:10 or 1:20 detail. This is in no way practical when creating an object based model of an existing building with all of it's in-accuracies in the real world. We know that the scan data is far more accurate than a model can be.
I think that if the point clouds can be classified by object with the mentioned algorithms then tagging information would be just as straight forward. If a dimension needs to be taken in order to fit a beam between two walls then I would trust the point cloud over the best fit model any day.
I think that if the point clouds can be classified by object with the mentioned algorithms then tagging information would be just as straight forward. If a dimension needs to be taken in order to fit a beam between two walls then I would trust the point cloud over the best fit model any day.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
and this is very important when you have old building with new extension, upgrade of services...
and you need BIM data always up to date, and even on mobile app available in site.
and you need BIM data always up to date, and even on mobile app available in site.
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
what is the method you used to get your point cloud into 360 glue?72RPG wrote:and this is very important when you have old building with new extension, upgrade of services...
and you need BIM data always up to date, and even on mobile app available in site.
I remember trying this a while back, and never could get it to work.
Mind sharing this info?
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
Hello Graham,
I have a few questions about the Netview.
What scan file formats does it work with and what is the import procedure?
Is Netview the asset management system or does it need to link to an outside asset management system?
If it needs to link to an outside asset management system what is it compatible with?
How does the license system work? If a survey contractor owns a license and produces the content could it be installed on clients computers such as Webshare to go or would that require separate licenses?
Thank you,
Warren
I have a few questions about the Netview.
What scan file formats does it work with and what is the import procedure?
Is Netview the asset management system or does it need to link to an outside asset management system?
If it needs to link to an outside asset management system what is it compatible with?
How does the license system work? If a survey contractor owns a license and produces the content could it be installed on clients computers such as Webshare to go or would that require separate licenses?
Thank you,
Warren
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
Warren
I would recommend taking a bit of time and browse the LFM website, for more detailed questions contact LFM or one of its resellers. For information on licensing options etc. you really are best speaking with LFM.
http://web.lfm-software.com/en/Promotio ... tview.aspx
LFM works with most laser scanners and additional laser formats, the data is imported pre-registered or can be registered within LFM, it is then published to NetView product for use.
I am no expert on the NetView product, I was involved in its precursor IntelliLaser but that was 4 years ago so do double check details. NetView allows the users to view surveys as bubble views, users navigate about the facility from scan to scan using neighbouring scans accessed within the image or using a key map. They can take measurements within the images, measurements such as pipe diameter, point to point, or point to surface measurements. Comments within the survey can be added and with associated hyper links to external documents.
As to integration with asset management system it has been integrated with the AVEVA NET Portal.
The following is a promotional video for the original AVEVA IntelliLaser product give you an idea of what is possible when used in operations and maintenance.
youtu.be/
I would recommend taking a bit of time and browse the LFM website, for more detailed questions contact LFM or one of its resellers. For information on licensing options etc. you really are best speaking with LFM.
http://web.lfm-software.com/en/Promotio ... tview.aspx
LFM works with most laser scanners and additional laser formats, the data is imported pre-registered or can be registered within LFM, it is then published to NetView product for use.
I am no expert on the NetView product, I was involved in its precursor IntelliLaser but that was 4 years ago so do double check details. NetView allows the users to view surveys as bubble views, users navigate about the facility from scan to scan using neighbouring scans accessed within the image or using a key map. They can take measurements within the images, measurements such as pipe diameter, point to point, or point to surface measurements. Comments within the survey can be added and with associated hyper links to external documents.
As to integration with asset management system it has been integrated with the AVEVA NET Portal.
The following is a promotional video for the original AVEVA IntelliLaser product give you an idea of what is possible when used in operations and maintenance.
youtu.be/
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Re: Point cloud as user interface for BIM
And so it happens .. machine learning applied to point clouds ..
http://news.stanford.edu/2016/06/29/sta ... formation/
http://news.stanford.edu/2016/06/29/sta ... formation/