Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

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Felix_the_Cat
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Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by Felix_the_Cat »

So I am in a bit of a pickle here.

I have a Faro Focus model 130 at my disposal. And a Faro Vantage Laser tracker, and Pretty much any CAD I need. I prefer Rhino, I have the Arena4D plugin, but have ReCAP, (regular, not pro), Navisworks, AutoCAD everything, Inventor, Maya, 3dstudio Max, Creo everything, Right Hemisphere, Catia and possibly unlimited budget to procure new software. I also have Spacial Analyzer, but don't have a lot of experience using it with scan data.

I am extremely dubious of the tracker, I have relied on it three times, and all three time it crapped out before the necessary data was gathered. NOT ready for primetime. I guess near $100k just doesn't get you much anymore. @#$% you Faro.

The project is a huge structural steel object, meant to be rectangular but tracker (Leica, didn't crap out) data says it is racked, and I am trying to determine how badly.

My question is this; I have the scans, but when I zoom in to get a measurement point to point in Scene, there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to the relationship of where you click to select a point vs. which point Scene thinks you meant. Incredibly frustrating. You can click right on a point and it chooses a totally different point, usually completely off screen. wtf?

So, I need to find the center of a tapped hole to align a local coordinate system to and then find dimensions to various other holes and planar features. It doesn't have to be crazy accurate; within an eighth of an inch, but I need to be sure I'm supplying my customers with good information close to this tolerance.

Anyone who can help out with a suggestion of how I can accomplish this would be greatly appreciated.

Bottom line; how do you guys measure? Am I misguided in thinking 1/8" is well within the precision of my scanner?

Again, any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by TommyMaddox »

In my opinion measuring from points is probably not the path you want to be taking. I'd extract features from the point cloud and measure from those. Like hole/circle centers or cylindrical axes etc... Maybe consider planar deviation analysis for checking twist on some of the rectangular sides.

I did work on a large dryer housing that was supposed to be rectangular but was twisted and racked 8 ways to Sunday and found that our trusty old Tracker X with CAM 2 was more than sufficient. I'm surprised you had issues with the Vantage, it's a wonderful piece of equipment based on my experiences with it. If you'd like to discuss a bit further, I'd be happy to chat with you as i seem to be one of the few folks around that uses tracker+scanner+scanarm on a regular basis. If you've got access to SA this should be a walk in the park for you although I don't see any feasibility issues if using the other software packages. Many many many factors will affect the quality of your scan data and it's precision, much more so than FARO training or sales persons will inform you of and there is such a steep learning curve with this sort of equipment.
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by NOVAMECH »

For Metrology you need to look at Polyworks - you can look at NOVAMECH's website and give me a call some time if you like. We have

-ZF5010x
-Leica AT402 Laser Tracker
-NDI OPTO TRAK - Pro CMM
-Leica 6100
-Romer Absolute Scan & CMM Arm
-DPi-8

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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by max72 »

Rhino + Arena is a great combination in my opinion. Very fast and flexible, even with huge clouds.
One of the feaures I like most in these situations is you can do sections along arbitrary directions, and work on the relevant cplane.
The optional snap to point works very well too, and you have the multiple views to double ckeck you are picking the right point.

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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by Felix_the_Cat »

Thank you kindly for the replies.

Feature extraction is exactly what I'm after.

Novamech, I checked out your website and it appears that a lot of your comparison images with histograms are done with CloudCompare. Is this correct? I have a Creo model of the structure in question and an overlay of the pointcloud on the model is a good place for me to start. If one is doing that sort of thing does the model (ie surfaces) need to be a single mesh to accomplish this? That would be a deal breaker due to the size and complexity of the model.

Polyworks looks intriguing, but as I can't seem to find any pricing information on their website, my guess is it one of those "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" packages. Kinda like SA, I imagine. Might be a tough sell for me for one project. I will continue to investigate.

This is new territory for us, and I'm struggling to find an acceptable process. So much data, now I just need to pull out some results.

TommyMaddox, I was a little dismayed at my adventures with the Vantage, as I had heard so many rave reviews, but the tool room guy described it as "persnickity", and that it was. Just simply stopped working, no rhyme or reason, like a pouty four year old. Let it sit overnight, and fire it up the next morning, and it would work again. Until it decided to not. The last time out the Comm board quit, so back to Faro for what I assume will be $$$$ for service.

I have been told by the SA folks that what I am after is in the software, somewhere. Guess it is time to dig into the help files *sigh*. As always, a quick turnaround is necessary, to I'm trying to find an entrance point to a process so I don't waste too much time barking up the proverbial wrong tree. Do you have any high level suggestions as to where to look to get me going on this process?

Massimo, thank you for the suggestion. I don't have Rhino on the laptop I am using, will give that a shot when I get back to the office.

Again, any assistance is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by Mark Christy »

Felix,

As Massimo said I'm sure we can help you with what you need to do in Rhino.

If you want some help on a screen sharing session just let us know.

Many Thanks

Mark
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by TommyMaddox »

A very easy option would be to use deviation analysis software like geomagic control/qualify/design x or even CAM2 with a model of the structure if it's available, or a model of the structure created from drawings. This would quickly show you and report in great detail how 'off' the point cloud is at any given point with respect to your nominal model. This would probably be the easiest route depending on the availability of a cad model or drawings to create one.
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by dirdim »

Hi Felix,

You have good very tools for what sounds like a very good project. This should all work. What you are missing is training and experience. Plenty of firms around the country (USA) provide complex 3D metrology services with these and other metrology tools. You should contact a firm that does this exact type of work everyday and either engage them to do it with you or provide you with some training in the use of all of these tools.

We do a lot of work for Lockheed Martin and other organizations. Just recently we used a tracker (FARO Vantage), and high accuracy phase-based scanner (Surphaser), and a portable CMM arm (FaroArm) on one project in one day with one engineer to measure and analyze issues on a few of the new LCS ships that your firm makes. We used a combination of software including CAM2, Scene, PolyWorks, Geomagic, and some CAD (Rhino and SolidWorks).

You have great tools but you need some training. And maybe that tracker you have needs some servicing too.

I would be happy to speak with you to discuss your project. There may also be other metrology engineers at LM facilities that may also be able to help you - we can connect you.
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by Dave Andrews »

Well this seems complex.

So I use both a Faro Vantage and a Faro Focus scanner. I also use Polyworks Inspector, well worth the $15k ish, for both scanning and tracking. Polyworks is great for the tracker, easy reporting and easy data manipulation. What I will say about Polyworks, you will need a computer with tons of Ram, a good video card and a good processor. We use our trackers 8-10 days per month and rarely have an issue. We run into things like the cat 5 cable going bad, sunlight which is a huge issue as you are using a laser and the tracker ball being dirty again a huge issue.

I have done these type of projects in the past. Overall there is no "one stop shop" for what you are trying to accomplish. I have used Scene, Polyworks, AutoCAD, Edgewise and Inventor to accomplish everything I needed.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you like.

DA
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Re: Metrology - how do you measure from scans?

Post by Adam333D »

Hello Felix,

I have heard of issues in the field with equipment like this before. Sometimes it needs to calibrated/maintained and that is where we might be able to assist with a rapid replacement 3D Laser Scanner / Tracker / ScanArm. We have technicians that work on the specific types of equipment you mentioned. If you need more information regarding one of our equipment rentals, please contact me directly and we may be able to help you out of a jam. We can deliver replacement/supplemental equipment within 1 business-day in the USA and we work internationally, as well. I am also interested networking with people/companies in our industry. Please feel free to add me on Linkedin. My contact info is below:

Best Regards,

Adam Keil
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