"A dedicated reality capture team" for construction sites?

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ChrisJPalmer
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Re: "A dedicated reality capture team" for construction site

Post by ChrisJPalmer »

Thinking about it....

Removing existing buildings (i.e. surveys for refurbs) from the equation and focussing specifically on the 'As built' which becomes the property of a client at handover of a new build project.....


Clients in public and private sector are obviously now beginning to asking for a designs to be produce as a 3D BIM.

The main idea behind this is to reduce construction phase costs (i.e. site issues, prefabrication etc, etc), part of the idea is to make better use of the design data for FM purposes.

If the above is true, surely clients will be asking for 'As built' information to provided as a 3D BIM ?

And if they want to actually benefit from the investment in the front end design stage BIM, why would they commission a surveyor to produce a separate 'Building Model' with less 'Information' (i.e. manufacturers data etc)? Surely in this scenario the 'as-built' has to be an updated design stage BIM.

We all know how long it takes to produce any form of accurate BIM, new or existing. So in terms of costs for 3D 'As-Builts', possibly the approach of surveying and updating rather than surveying and re-producing at the end of a project will actually be cheaper ?

I can see and agree with both sides of the argument and I completely agree that everything depends upon what a client wants and is willing to pay for.

I think the point Matt was trying to make is that in his experience what clients want going forward is slowly beginning to change, as other industries adopt the above approach.

Surveyors have an opportunity to be involved in that just as much as they are now, at the end of the day it is all just about foreseeing market changes and adapting your services or offering new ones.
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Re: "A dedicated reality capture team" for construction site

Post by Oatfedgoat »

ChrisJPalmer wrote: Clients in public and private sector are obviously now beginning to asking for a designs to be produce as a 3D BIM.

The main idea behind this is to reduce construction phase costs (i.e. site issues, prefabrication etc, etc), part of the idea is to make better use of the design data for FM purposes.

If the above is true, surely clients will be asking for 'As built' information to provided as a 3D BIM ?

And if they want to actually benefit from the investment in the front end design stage BIM, why would they commission a surveyor to produce a separate 'Building Model' with less 'Information' (i.e. manufacturers data etc)? Surely in this scenario the 'as-built' has to be an updated design stage BIM.
Highlighted the points that have been driving my reasoning which I did not include in my previous posts. Eventually, as clients become better informed, they will start asking the question, "I already have a design BIM, why are you (the survey company) telling me that the best approach for an as built is to start from scratch again?"

I dont pretend to know what the optimum, or even reasonable workflow for this would be yet. But I believe the only way to work this out is from people like us here on the forum to better understand what clients want in a utopian world.
ChrisJPalmer wrote: We all know how long it takes to produce any form of accurate BIM, new or existing. So in terms of costs for 3D 'As-Builts', possibly the approach of surveying and updating rather than surveying and re-producing at the end of a project will actually be cheaper ?
Imagine being the survey company that goes to one of your main clients and suggests this as an approach if you know they are doing BIM already. Working with your client collaboratively and arriving at a better end product, that gives them more information they can use in an as built, is more detailed than current survey models, and is cheaper... It's unlikely they would go to anyone else for as builts for a long while surely?
ChrisJPalmer wrote:Surveyors have an opportunity to be involved in that just as much as they are now, at the end of the day it is all just about foreseeing market changes and adapting your services or offering new ones.
I think part of the issue is that the vast majority of the survey industry does not really interact that much with the rest of the construction industry to see the whole tidal wave of change that is already here.

We can all read endless repetetive articles and blog posts about BIM ;) :lol: , but until you speak to those leading the changes it's only then that we realise the opportunity that exists for your survey company to be a real part of this and maybe identify phases in new processes that are a great opportunity for you. Not to mention, the increased level of knowledge, trust, exposure and opportunity doing so could bring.

Unfortunately, with a small handful of exceptions, the only people from Geomatics I see at BIM events are directors of companies that are usually not able to engage on a technical, frankly geeky, manner with the rest of industry. This is where ideas are born..... (and in the pub afterwards!)
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Re: "A dedicated reality capture team" for construction site

Post by Oatfedgoat »

ChrisJPalmer wrote: Removing existing buildings (i.e. surveys for refurbs) from the equation and focussing specifically on the 'As built' which becomes the property of a client at handover of a new build project.....
I should probably add, that myself and a few other pains in the arse are going to be attempting to undertake this crazy as built process soon an a refurb! :twisted:

It's all well and good talking about stuff and theorising for ages, but eventually you need a real world example.

I won't go into much detail at this time as it is likely to be the content of some presentations I hope to get invloved with this year.
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Re: "A dedicated reality capture team" for construction site

Post by Matt Young »

Another post needing a like button ;)

I certainly does make sense in terms of a new build to create the as-built as the building is built. It would be great to get involved with this kind of process, but we just don't for some reason. But as you say, people are changing the way they think about this process and it will come in time I guess.

We have been involved with some demolition projects, where we record the building state at various stages as it is taken apart. So doing it when the building is constructed is not such a far fetched idea.
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Re: "A dedicated reality capture team" for construction site

Post by Augusto 3D »

Very interesting discussions. ( I know I am 11 month late).

This is an interesting topic to me since I am familiar with the BIM process and I am looking to implement Laser scanning. I am not a surveyor, I am actually an Architect with experience both on the design side of Bim and Bim for construction (VDC). However, I can say that many of you are on the right track. Typically you wouldn't start from scratch to make an as-built model, but rather use a construction model (LOD400) model and update it based on scan data. Further more, additional information can be added to such model for FM.
In the end what begins as a design Bim model becomes an as-built Bim (LOD500).

I realize this forum is in the UK. I practice in the USA, As least this is how it is done here.
To answer the main question of this thread, yes - you would want to have a scanning crew during construction to clash the scan data with the BIM for sole purpose of quality control.
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