What is BIM?

Discuss all BIM related issues here.
Oatfedgoat
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 1047
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm
15
Full Name: Matthew McCarter
Company Details: Costain
Company Position Title: BIM Manager
Country: England
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Oatfedgoat »

Cookies gone!

It must be frustrating in the private sector Ben to have so many enquiries from people wanting a "BIM model" (please save a fluffy kitten - I used speech marks!)

As we near 2016 I am sure it will continue to get worse from clients who want to be on the BIM train but will just end up not using the data to it's full potential.

I await tomorrows announcement as to which schemes the government is announcing will be using BIM.
My money is on HS2 just to annoy the NIMBY's a bit more!
SteveBury
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:34 am
13
Full Name: Steve Bury
Company Details: Bury Associates Limited
Company Position Title: Director
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: What is BIM?

Post by SteveBury »

BIM is something lots of people are pretending they do, but the reality is that they've just bought some software that says BIM on the box. It should be about modelling buildings in 3D to prototype the design and fit out, sharing that model with everyone involved in the design and construction process and then using it to operate and manage the building afterwards. That complete process is yet to happen, despite what the never ending number of BIM conferences would have us believe. Plenty of companies are using software like Revit, but only for their own internal use - the sharing of access to a single model used by everyone is not yet happening except on a few projects.
BIM being hyped as something new, something magical - it isn't. It just should be a much more efficient way of running the construction process once everyone has moved away from unintelligent 2D drawings into the 3D world. And as far as the surveyor goes, it's just another form of deliverable for the client. We've been using Revit since 2006 - the letters B, I and M weren't even being used back then. We just modelled building in Revit and delivered them to the client. Exactly what we still do now. Using something like Revit requires a greater skill set and, as Matt says, an understanding of how buildings go together - but it is just a deliverable in the same way 2D CAD is. In a year or two the fuss will die down and everyone will stop claiming to be 'BIM consultants' and they will just go back to being surveyors who deliver their surveys in whatever format their clients want it in.
To quote Public Enemy..."Don't believe the hype!"
Oatfedgoat
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 1047
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm
15
Full Name: Matthew McCarter
Company Details: Costain
Company Position Title: BIM Manager
Country: England
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Oatfedgoat »

Good post Steve from someone who is doing some impressive looking work in Revit. It is refreshing to see you downplay it being a specialty product/service.

One of example I have seen where BIM was very well used is the Victoria Station upgrade project by Mott MacDonald. This was made and managed by a variety of Bentley products for a very complex and precise purpose.
Check it out if you get a chance, some of the very old 3D surveys of some basements/station areas and 3D topo were done years ago by yours truely in a former life before joining LU at a time when even having a 3D topo was unusual!
User avatar
Matt Young
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm
16
Full Name: Matt Young
Company Details: Baker Hicks
Company Position Title: CAD-BIM Lead
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Matt Young »

Although those of us that have been creating 3D models of buildings for a long time now, understand BIM and that there is a lot of hype around it. I think the hype is there for a good reason and it needs to be a for a while longer until everyone out there understands the real purpose behind having a Building Information Model. When they do they will be asking for the right thing in the right way.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
Oatfedgoat
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 1047
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm
15
Full Name: Matthew McCarter
Company Details: Costain
Company Position Title: BIM Manager
Country: England
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Oatfedgoat »

I am probably in a slightly different position to most on the forum.
I am from "the client" as most of you would percieve it. Thus, it is the compnay for whom I work that that will be using the I of BIM. We already have loads and loads of information in all sorts of different formats across different databases and systems. The majority of our existing CAD data is 2D, 3D is certainly taking off, but it is a massive ongoing task to survey all of the network in 3D. Whilst there is no reason to NOT use the 2D data for BIM purposes, the level 2 mandate dictates that it shall be 3D for us.
We are doing so much 3D work in the survey team currently that almost my entire year is mapped out already with 3D work.

This puts me and my team in a fortunate position that we will have a greater opportunity to liase with the teams who will use the survey and design in order to ensure we fulfill their BIM needs fully.
It's going to be a massive culture change which I am looking forward to sticking my beak into to be a part of it.
SteveBury
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:34 am
13
Full Name: Steve Bury
Company Details: Bury Associates Limited
Company Position Title: Director
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: What is BIM?

Post by SteveBury »

Don't get me wrong - some great projects have been carried out using BIM and its use will rise exponentially over the next year or two - something that seems to have totally been missed by a considerable chunk of UK surveyors who carry out measured building surveys. As I said, what we produce is a deliverable - a 3D building information model, but what we do professionally isn't BIM. We provide the information to facilitate the BIM process. When working with existing buildings and structures the model that has been created by the surveyor is the starting point for the process - just as previously our 2D plans, sections and elevations were.
The hype is good for business, if you have the skills to produce what is needed. But as several posts on here have indicated, most clients don't actually know what they want yet. When we produce a set of 2D drawings they can sit in the background as the architects carries out his/her design, or they can change the layers to suit their system in a matter of seconds. That's not the way a product like Revit works. You give your client a model and they work on that very model, and unfortunately every client has their own way of working - which is causing problems when it comes to sharing data at the moment.
Those of us around when CAD first started to be used will remember all those daft layering systems every client used to issue when they wanted a survey carrying out. Usually whoever took control of CAD in an office set themselves up as 'the expert' and everyone went along without questioning whether what they were doing was sensible. The same thing is happening with Revit, and it's a hell of a lot more complicated in terms of content of the final deliverable than a 2D drawing is!
I hear the RICS is now looking at BIM from a survey point of view. Something that causes me great concern. We do need to standarise what we produce, but talking about standardising for 'BIM' is the wrong route - certainly until all BIM software packages can exchange information accurately and completely between each other - a reliable DXF type format containing all the 3D information in a model is quite a way off yet. What we need is standardisation on how a survey is going to be created in Revit and other 3D packages . We all need to be producing a comparable product so the client knows what he's getting and every survey company knows what they have to produce. That's something those of us working in the field should be doing and we should be doing it now. I have spoken to a few other people who seem to think that's a good idea. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else thinks this is something we should be doing.
User avatar
Matt Young
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm
16
Full Name: Matt Young
Company Details: Baker Hicks
Company Position Title: CAD-BIM Lead
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Matt Young »

The way I see it is that the Building/land surveyors role in BIM is as follows:

1/. to provide a 2D or 3D topographical plan of a site that has all the level information needed to design a building on. This can be provided in a BIM software format.

2/. to survey a new build that has been created using BIM software and report on or edit the model to suit the as-built.

3/. to create or help create an existing building from surveyed information in BIM software that a client wants in that format.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
User avatar
Phill
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:19 am
16
Full Name: Phillip Nixon
Company Details: SKM
Company Position Title: Surveyor
Country: Australia
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Phill »

Hey guys, old post but I have a few questions about BIM.

We have recently been doing some projects in REVIT and I know some of you have been BIMing it up for quite some time now. I did a quick check of Wiki ("we'll change that when we get home" - Homer Simpson) and it has the following definition:

Building information modeling (BIM) is a process involving the generation and management of digital representations of physical and functional characteristics of a facility.

Ok so my question is using Revit as an example, is it BIM to simply asign a wall as a generic wall, the wall being the information charateristic, or is it not BIM until you say thats a concrete/brick/plasterboard etc wall.

Why do I ask? the Revit model we created had many elements that were not standard features, in the case of the walls we had objects like embelishements and cornicing or objects that could only be modelled by a "model in place" element, and didnt end up having a materal applied to them, for example have a look at the walls or the organ or light fittings in the picture below
17.JPG
The objects are not dumb as they belong to a "family", but is this so different from being in a layer in autocad? I recently saw that someone was scanning and modelling the RCIS building (I'm guessing thats like our LPI), but what I saw was a scan cloud and some modelled items. From the looks of the cloud it had a similar level of detail to the hall we have just finished, and am looking forward to seeing to what level they detail the inside.

So my question is... is everyone else doing modeling in place elements and generic family objects for scan to BIM or are you combining the model with design plans, and making complex elements, the latter certainly being more time consuming than the former?

...What is BIM?

Thanks

Cheers

Phill
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
SteveBury
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:34 am
13
Full Name: Steve Bury
Company Details: Bury Associates Limited
Company Position Title: Director
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: What is BIM?

Post by SteveBury »

What is BIM? BIM is largely hype used to sell expensive software produced by large corporations and has become something of a cult within an industry desperate to haul itself out of a devastating recession. But saying that, it really is hugely beneficial that the wider construction industry is finally waking up to the fact that there are some wonderful technologies out there and that everyone needs be implementing them into their businesses and working in a more integrated way together. 'BIM' in a nutshell!
Modelling 'in place' in Revit is usually the only practical solution when you come across items such as mouldings and ornate stonework, so you're definitely doing the right thing. Is it BIM? No, but neither are point clouds, despite plenty of people who seem think they are!
Oatfedgoat
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 1047
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm
15
Full Name: Matthew McCarter
Company Details: Costain
Company Position Title: BIM Manager
Country: England
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What is BIM?

Post by Oatfedgoat »

Phill wrote:Hey guys, old post but I have a few questions about BIM.
That's a very nice looking model Phil. 8-)

Phill wrote: Building information modeling (BIM) is a process involving the generation and management of digital representations of physical and functional characteristics of a facility.
Despite what some software companies may have originally tried to market, BIM is not a piece of software, it is not 3D models, it is not a Revit model.
Generally, a BIM savvy client will be far more interested in the I of BIM than the M.
The information allows the client to understand their building/asset(s) and manage them in a way that the operation and maintenance of the building is driven by the information from the BIM.

Attached is a presentation that was given at a conference earlier this year that may be of interest.
A few slides outline some of the BIM myths.
Here is a youtube video of the presentation being given at a different event in a shortened version:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUrfSKGsj0c[/youtube]

BIM is just a process of design, build and operation of a building in a collaborative environment.
I do not believe that most survey models are actually currently encorporated into this process in such a way that the survey industry can say they are "doing BIM"
Yes they might be providing a model from a BIM authoring tool (like Revit) to a client, but they are not working in the shared working area (known as the CDE or Common Data Environment) and following the procedures established by the CDE.
The CDE will allow for traceable versions of files and typically different states of the file via metadata.
This might be a "work in progress state" where only specific groups of people can see the file. The file is then moved to a shared status which allows anyone on the project to see the file as it has been approved for sharing.


It seems that Australia is really moving forward with BIM in the last 6 months or so.
This is probably the best website to keep track of what is going on there.
http://collaborate-anz.com/main/

People that I know that are involved with it that you may wish to follow on twitter are:
@SteveApplebys and @RevitST
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply

Return to “Building Information Modeling [BIM]”