Can't help but throw my ore in here....
Most of the Laser Scan to existing Revit models I have produced are not really BIM at all. They are just existing Revit models of buildings.
However we have tried to model them in such a way that they can be incorporated into the BIM process for a refurbishment scheme. My approach is to try and create as much of a useful database as possible, so we are creating families for as many components as possible and breaking the model down / classifying model elements so it can be interrogated and scheduled from. This is the approach used to create a BIM of a new build architectural project (going as far as pre-fabrication etc if you ask some), so I am thinking about reversing that process as far as practical really. Certainly this is the approach I take for models I've built to use in my own refurbishment schemes.
Importantly though, the above is really an ideal to strive towards and is obviously going to be subject to the LOD agreed with the client and trying to make the time / cost element of the Scan to BIM project or refurb job profitable.
So I would consider a Scan to Revit deliverable to be the equivalent of an empty coat hanger. It can be phased and extended to incorporate the new works, Meta data can then be added to it and it can be brought into a common data environment to then become part of the BIM process for Clash Detection, 4D and 5D scheduling and to provide data drops etc etc etc.
In relation to FM I know that one of my former clients is using a model we built as the basis for a 5 year rolling refurbishment scheme of the full building, with the original as built constantly updated as projects are completed and farmed out to each consultant who wins the next job as the existing model of the building. Time will tell how this works out and it would make an interesting case study but I think it's a great approach to have.
In relation to the RICS, I think they desperately need engage their members to develop some modelling standards and recognised LOD's for this type of work..... that's if they haven't already and I missed out !
What is BIM?
- ChrisJPalmer
- I have made 100> posts
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:34 pm
- 12
- Full Name: Chris Palmer
- Company Details: FARO Technologies
- Company Position Title: 3D Documentation Engineer
- Country: UK
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
-
- Honorary Member
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm
- 15
- Full Name: Matthew McCarter
- Company Details: Costain
- Company Position Title: BIM Manager
- Country: England
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: What is BIM?
You were one of the people/companies I had in mind when I only said "most" survey companies don't understand or are not part of the BIM process.
It's probably worth mentioning Chris that the company you refer to in your post was not a survey company. You just happened to be carrying our laser scan surveys in for an architectural/BIM company and hence have a far higher understanding of BIM than 99.99999% of people in the survey industry.
It's probably worth mentioning Chris that the company you refer to in your post was not a survey company. You just happened to be carrying our laser scan surveys in for an architectural/BIM company and hence have a far higher understanding of BIM than 99.99999% of people in the survey industry.
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:51 pm
- 14
- Full Name: Jed Frechette
- Company Details: Lidar Guys
- Company Position Title: CEO and Lidar Supervisor
- Country: USA
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
- Has thanked: 62 times
- Been thanked: 220 times
- Contact:
Re: What is BIM?
I haven't really done any of this type of work so you'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I'm curious about the process. If I understand the coat hanger analogy correctly, the actual point cloud would be a spool of wire? Do clients put much value in that data or from their perspective does everything begin with component models generated in Revit et. al.?ChrisJPalmer wrote:So I would consider a Scan to Revit deliverable to be the equivalent of an empty coat hanger. It can be phased and extended to incorporate the new works, Meta data can then be added to it and it can be brought into a common data environment to then become part of the BIM process for Clash Detection, 4D and 5D scheduling and to provide data drops etc etc etc.
I suspect modeling and building the database are by far the most expensive parts of the process so I could imagine a scenario where it would make sense to scan a larger part of a facility while on location and the startup costs have already been committed even if the intention is to only model a small subset. That would seem to require a rather forward looking client and the assumption that the building won't change much between when you collect the scans and might want to use them down the road. In practice does that ever happen?
Jed
- ChrisJPalmer
- I have made 100> posts
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:34 pm
- 12
- Full Name: Chris Palmer
- Company Details: FARO Technologies
- Company Position Title: 3D Documentation Engineer
- Country: UK
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
Re: What is BIM?
I suppose it depends client to client, sector to sector. I can image the scan data of a heritage building may be of more value to a client than the scan data of a 1960's office building. But again that would be subjective as to what they intended to do with it, possibly the capability for TruViews / WebShare may be more valuable to a client in PetroChem and the Offshore industry.Do clients put much value in that data or from their perspective does everything begin with component models generated in Revit et. al.?
Not in my experience but I can't speak for the industry as a whole !I suspect modeling and building the database are by far the most expensive parts of the process so I could imagine a scenario where it would make sense to scan a larger part of a facility while on location and the startup costs have already been committed even if the intention is to only model a small subset. That would seem to require a rather forward looking client and the assumption that the building won't change much between when you collect the scans and might want to use them down the road. In practice does that ever happen?
We did a scan / model of a 6 storey building and only did 2 floors upfront with the rest to follow as the client didn't want to pay for the full scan upfront.
- Phill
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:19 am
- 16
- Full Name: Phillip Nixon
- Company Details: SKM
- Company Position Title: Surveyor
- Country: Australia
- Location: Sydney
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 45 times
Re: What is BIM?
All
Thanks for all the opinions, links and info. As I suspected what I am doing is far from BIM. I like the coathanger anogloy. Scan cloud is the wire, a model of exsiting compoents is the coathanger, and from there you can hang whatever you like on it (and as much lace and diamonties as you like). Without the coat hanger, the "I" data (piece of clothing) is just a mess laying on the floor.
Cheers
Phill
Thanks for all the opinions, links and info. As I suspected what I am doing is far from BIM. I like the coathanger anogloy. Scan cloud is the wire, a model of exsiting compoents is the coathanger, and from there you can hang whatever you like on it (and as much lace and diamonties as you like). Without the coat hanger, the "I" data (piece of clothing) is just a mess laying on the floor.
Cheers
Phill
-
- I have made <0 posts
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:44 am
- 10
- Full Name: Mayuresh Sorap
- Company Details: XS CAD Limited
- Company Position Title: Marketing
- Country: India
- Skype Name: Mayuresh XS CAD INDIA
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
Re: What is BIM?
Hi,
Building Information Modelling is becoming increasingly vital for recent construction projects. Not only does it provide a digital representation of a building project, it also simplifies superior levels of collaboration and interoperability within the design environment.
Building Information Modelling is becoming increasingly vital for recent construction projects. Not only does it provide a digital representation of a building project, it also simplifies superior levels of collaboration and interoperability within the design environment.