WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Discuss all BIM related issues here.
cfoster
I have made 70-80 posts
I have made 70-80 posts
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:09 am
9
Full Name: Chris Foster
Company Details: CEC Inc
Company Position Title: Survey APM and CAD Manager
Country: United States

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by cfoster »

I truncate all coordinates I work with when using point clouds whether in scene, autocad, or revit. For instance if all my coordinates are N:56xxxx E:270xxxx I reduce them down to xxxx. Then import to revit and move the project origin to N:560000 E:2700000. Then everything works fine. The problem is when your data is so far from the project origin. For autocad, I import them truncated and do all my extraction. This allows the 3D snaps to work correctly. Then once I'm finished I move everything from 0,0 to 2700000,560000. It seems strange at first, but it keeps everything working correctly, and that's what matters to me.
User avatar
SolidPoint
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:27 pm
7
Full Name: James Pegg
Company Details: SolidPoint Limited
Company Position Title: Managing Director
Country: United Kingdom
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by SolidPoint »

I've not quite read through everything. But would like to suggest a way I prefer to work now. Because Revit can be a bit of a pain from one version to the next especially working on real world coordinates,
1. I find the first thing to do is update the origin in Recap to a more local position, this instantly solves a few issues.
2. Then insert the point cloud into Revit using "centre to Centre". Leaving the Project base point and survey point at 0,0,0. Place the point cloud where you want it in respect to the project basepoint. Don't move the project BasePoint!
3. Set an alignment to work to "rotate project North" along a lengthy wall etc.
4. Produce the model to the required specification.
5. Create a new central project and link the original point cloud in via "shared coordinates"
6. Link the completed Revit project with the point cloud still turned on.
7. Line up the linked Revit file point cloud with the correctly positioned point cloud (This is easy when you get used to doing it and should be able to get them within 1mm alignment).
Publish the shared coordinates to the linked file.
8. Re-open the completed file, unclip the Survey Point and give it nice rounded coordinates closer to your site.

It seems a bit long winded compared to simply importing on shared coordinates and modelling from there, but I find I very rarely have any graphical issues or errors occurring when migrating from one version of Revit to another. and working this way I never really encounter any of the random glitches that happen in various versions.

Apologies if someone has already given an answer similar. but I hope this helps.
James Pegg
Lead Surveyor/ BIM Manager at SolidPoint
Please check out our laser scanning and Scan to BIM services
User avatar
Matt Young
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm
16
Full Name: Matt Young
Company Details: Baker Hicks
Company Position Title: CAD-BIM Lead
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by Matt Young »

I just do the following:

1. Add local coordinate system in Cyclone (or preferred software) including local rotation. Now there are two coordinate systems - local and large. I prefer to have the local origin to the lower left of the site to enable positive coordinates anywhere on site.

2. Export data from cyclone on local system and convert to Revit format.

3. Insert in Revit as origin to origin.

4. Assign large coordinates and orientation to project base point shared site. (remember to assign it as yx and not xy due to Northings and Eastings being that way around in Revit). No need to change z by the way. It's usually a small enough value anyway.

Now the data is local with the core Revit coordinate system and displays correctly. Coordinates can be picked and will reflect the correct large coordinates of the point cloud.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
User avatar
SolidPoint
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:27 pm
7
Full Name: James Pegg
Company Details: SolidPoint Limited
Company Position Title: Managing Director
Country: United Kingdom
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by SolidPoint »

Yeah that's the way I used to do it for every project, I just found that you'd randomly get glitchs thanks to the random bugs the Revit devs seem to let creep in to the system from year to year. working on local coordinates then applying shared coordinates to the project later seems to eliminate this.

We also work a lot producing Revit models for other surveying companies. we can't always rely on them applying correct coordinates and end up being fed gps coordinates later down the line. Hence why we tweaked our workflow from what you suggested.

The method I suggested previously also means that it is simple to work on varying sets of data. We've had some sites where we've been fed Arbitrary 2D plans and elevations with snippets of scan data of the odd corner or parts of the roof. this lets us work arbitrarily then position various linked files consistently into one central file.
James Pegg
Lead Surveyor/ BIM Manager at SolidPoint
Please check out our laser scanning and Scan to BIM services
User avatar
Matt Young
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm
16
Full Name: Matt Young
Company Details: Baker Hicks
Company Position Title: CAD-BIM Lead
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by Matt Young »

whatever works for you I guess ;)
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
72RPG
I have made 50-60 posts
I have made 50-60 posts
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:12 am
9
Full Name: Juraj Knotek
Company Details: BAM Contractors
Company Position Title: BIM Technician
Country: Ireland
Skype Name: knotek72
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Location: Ireland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by 72RPG »

Hi James

can you explain this step, please?

5. Create a new central project and link the original point cloud in via "shared coordinates"

Original Point Cloud - point Cloud in large coordinates?
shared coordinates - what setting you have in PBP?

Thank you

Juraj
(I am using different workflow - similar to Matt- but we are dealing with different projects - we have Revit Project - central model and MEP/Structural model and we use to link Point cloud during construction stage to provide validation - as built foundation, slab or as built MEP)
james.still
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:18 pm
9
Full Name: James Still
Company Details: BIM Technical Manager
Company Position Title: BIM Technical Manager
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Location: UK
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by james.still »

we do the same or similar.

with using 2016 we utilise base to point to base point for linking local and OS files.
mluis
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:06 pm
8
Full Name: Manuel Luis
Company Details: BIMTEC
Company Position Title: BIM Engineer
Country: Qatar
Linkedin Profile: No
Location: Qatar, Doha
Contact:

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by mluis »

1. Add local coordinate system in Cyclone (or preferred software) including local rotation. Now there are two coordinate systems - local and large. I prefer to have the local origin to the lower left of the site to enable positive coordinates anywhere on site.
I have a question (maybe silly question but still). I have a building with 5 floors (structure only) and i did individual registration for each floor, so i end with 5 individual registration & 5 modelspaces (all related to the same large coordinate system).

I then add a local coordinate system in Cyclone for one floor (using 2 points in that floor). After i repeat same procedure for the other 4 floors using 2 point from each floor and creating local coordinate system in the modelspace of each floor. Finally i import each pointcloud (individually, by level) into same model in Revit. Will it still display all floors correctly aligned? (which point should i choose for project base point in this case? is it irrelevant which point i choose from one of the floors?

Passing point clouds from large coordinate system to local coordinate system in Revit does not seem to be a very straight forward process :/

Thank you for your help!

P.S: sorry for any the bad english :?
User avatar
Matt Young
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3929
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm
16
Full Name: Matt Young
Company Details: Baker Hicks
Company Position Title: CAD-BIM Lead
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by Matt Young »

You mentioned that all floors are in the large system. All you need to do is apply the same local transformation to each separate floor. If you do them differently then they will not come in correctly.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.
mluis
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:06 pm
8
Full Name: Manuel Luis
Company Details: BIMTEC
Company Position Title: BIM Engineer
Country: Qatar
Linkedin Profile: No
Location: Qatar, Doha
Contact:

Re: WARNING - Revit 2016 & Pointclouds insertion

Post by mluis »

Using the suggestion of truncate the coordinates (from one of the users here) solved my problem. I just truncate the large coordinates, import into revit and then set the origin back to real coordinates.
Post Reply

Return to “Building Information Modeling [BIM]”